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  1. #1
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    I entered the affiliate scene many years back when there were few merchants and none of Reporting.net, CJ, and the likes. I made nice $ selling books for Amazon, long before affiliates became such a large class of pros.

    Lately some online search engine only forums(definitely not at all this one, I've just come from the forum I'm talking about) are simply destroying the search engine optimization scene.

    Before I continue let me thank you Haiko for this place. It's the only place where there mostly pros and not just Google @sslickers and amateurs.

    But on with my rant.....

    [edited here to improve my english....got double interpretation]

    One popular Google forum I was just reading now(some of you post there, judging from the nicknames) has what seems to be paid members. Some guys that stick around all day, not moderators, but they go to amazing lengths defending the search engines and the forum's totally nazi policies. The forum owners get VERY special treatment from engine reps and make tons of $$$ while every detail of the black art of SEO is sent directly to the desks at Google, ATW and others.

    Today a particularly revealing episode happened. One member I always suspected of being one of the paid ones or even the owner in disguise said something to the extent of "I saw your post before it was edited to take out xxxx" - it just so happens the post had not been edited at all yet, the specifics that he mentioned are still there at this time, but somehow this member knew HOW EXACTLY the post would be edited soon. He's not a moderator either according to his public profile. This guy works there, I always suspected him but today got proof. [added: the post has now been edited EXACTLY the way this member "predicted"]

    One day another member noticed posts were disappearing from the Google forum. I watched this develop and noted that the disappearing posts mentioned a backdoor into google's results, a backdoor which effectively worked for 3 months and probably made someone lots of $$$. Strangely I knew one old friend and webmaster that told me one of the moderators in that forum is in that area of adult business and was indeed using the technique so he censored it at the forum so it wouldn't be used widespread. The user that asked why the posts disappeared was kicked out of the forum along with 5 or 6 other members that questioned.

    [added]
    One of the members there has a site about europe tourism. He speaks of his site like it's a pure, clean and incredible source of information that never cheats on google and definitely has no for-profit interests. It just so happens his nickname is www.nickname.com - it's an affiliate site with tons of reviews of cameras and such...one day one person asked why he was allowed to use his domain as login and this person was kicked out of the forum, there's a "donate" button on this forum, those who donate get to be treated VERY SPECIALLY. This europexxx person only posts VERY positive stuff about Google.....strangely, and blasts anyone that criticizes the engine or the forum...strange, I can't put myself in his shoes and go to such lengths unless I was a total moron. But his nickname = domain...that explains it for me...


    Right now on that forum I'm talking about there's a bunch of Google ass lickers directly in touch with a Google rep. They're telling him everything they know of SEO and they're reporting anyone above them as being spammers. The google rep has apparently killed 4 or 5 sites in real time while I read the thread develop. I'm not protecting spammers and I think they should go but I wonder if our business is threatened by that kind of forum.

    The owner of the mentioned forum makes $$$ from software development and from that forum. I suppose he has very SPECIAL treatment from Google as any negative comments about Google are immediately flamed by at least 7 or 8 members, all of which I suspect are of the paid-to-post bunch.

    Just speaking my mind out on this subject as I think it's ridiculous to tell the search engine reps of techniques that could be used to make a few bucks and even keep the search engine market more balanced. I find it amazing how these people will tell the google rep EVERYTHING, even their emails and nicknames from the forum, they tell this google rep how they're achieving top listings and some come back amazed taht their site was killed from the google results...sigh...

    I know we shouldn't depend on Google totally but Google is such a valuable source of traffic that I can't help but feel like punching the owner of that kind of forum(thanks for a TRULY professional forum Haiko) - I think any decent webmaster should boycott that kind of forum as to protect our business.

    Ha!!! One of these days one particular idiot posted something to the extent of "EVERYTHING I'VE LEARNED ABOUT GOOGLE" - and went on to tell his 10.000.000 competitors and Google reps everything in his book of SEO...I wonder if any of it will work next week, except the part where he buys $ 50.000 in adwords.

    As far as I can see the only person that benefits from that forum is the owner while he destroys the SEO experts business while he makes $$$$$!!!! And the bunch of idiots who post there...what can I say, how can there be such self-deprecating pros!

    [This message was edited by moneychaser on April 18, 2003 at 09:11 PM.]

  2. #2
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    Interesting take on "that forum" ... I don't see it quite that way, though, I guess I can see some of what you're saying. There is definitely a lot of good ol boys type stuff going on over there. I highly doubt anyone is paid to post flames to anyone who posts anti Google sentiments, though. And I've seen quite a few anti Google threads run their course there. Search for threads about their privacy or caching issues...

    Someone could probably say a lot of the same things about here, though. There is definitely a lot of info shared that some probably think shouldn't.

    ----
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  3. #3
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    >There is definitely a lot of good ol boys type stuff going on over there.

    Definitely agree. I've personally learned lots from it.


    >And I've seen quite a few anti Google threads run their course there.

    Yup! But you will see that only the very light and naive ones get to run. If, for example, you say you suspect someone is making $$$ from licking @ss like the europexxx guy I mentioned above you'll get banned immediately...

    >Someone could probably say a lot of the same things about here, though.

    But it's different. I've been edited by Heyder on the heated war threads and I was pissed but it's different and Heyder will make it all very public and so on...there it's screaming self-promotion.

    Notice how "that" forums threads are mod_rewrited to look like normal static html and how all his links are SEOd to get him top placing for "Google IPO", "Google News" and so on....the only person profitting there is the owner, you can tell if you look closer at it.

    And he's profitting from ruining our biz...just my opinion of course.

  4. #4
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    >I highly doubt anyone is paid to post flames to anyone who posts anti Google sentiments, though.

    Not just anti-google....but if you read carefully you'll be able to tell who's natural and who's too darned devoted to that forum

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    LOL

    Aw, come on just give us a hint which forum it is.

    LOL

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:
    LOL

    Aw, come on just give us a hint which forum it is.

    LOL
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    LOL

  7. #7
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    Moneychaser, I agree! If you're talking about the forum I think you are, that place makes me sick. I usually can't stand to even look at it and haven't been able to bring myself to actually post!

    As for being paid to flame, it's probably not an "official" arrangement.

    -I've been a king, and I've been a pauper, and everything there is in between ~T.G. Sheppard. NOT Frank Sinatra!

  8. #8
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    Gotta agree on this one. Maybe Google can send a Google rep to all Webmaster forums not just Webmasterworld. Why not one here? Why only 1 Google rep, going to 1 webmaster forum. Does anybody know of another forum that has this, i can't find one. Seems if you're a member of that forum and you write an email with your WMW nick and webmasterworld in the subject line, your email gets pushed to the front, since GoogleGuy actively looks for those. Quote "I checked for spam reports by looking for your nick xxxx"
    "I'm happy to check out your reports, xxxx and xxxx, but you gotta include your nicks or I can't find them. "

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  9. #9
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    Google gives "reach arounds" to those who are stupid enough to let themselves be screwed. BT (another forum), is GG's personal rimmer. I have aired my opinion in my typical a** hole style, and get booted everytime

    Big Chuck
    If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch!

  10. #10
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    ROFL... reach around... lol. Didn't think I'd ever see that expression posted on ABW.
    personal rimmer muahahahaha..


    Not saying I agree (nor disagree) 100%, but, I like your choice of words.



    Reminds me of one of my favorite FMJ quotes.... *mumble*common decency*mumble*

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    A few years back, PayPal has hired a "Representative" to look aorund on the web for PayPal related posts, comments and do some name-cleaning and customer service for his company, but he always identified himself as being from PayPal. One day, a poster suggested in a forum an idea of "debit card" for PayPal accounts, so the money in the account could be used easily in daily life. The Rep took this idea to the bosses, they liked it and implemented it. Now, PayPal earns more than 3 million dollars in PROFIT a month, from this idea.

    Apparently, these kinds of forums are great sources of fresh information and ideas that may be very valuable a company and or anybody.

    But, SO WHAT, if Google took these info and ideas to BETTER their search results, and block out the SPAMMERS? That's just for the better.

    The relation between WebmasterWorld and Google is no secret. They have at least one, GG, that identifies himself as one. So what, if they "PAY" others as well for the benefit of their companies?

    I don't see anything wrong with this, even these conspiracy theories were true.

    Google is the best thing in the affiliate marketing, and I'm nothing but graceful to them.

    Now, you're gonna say that I'm paid by Google.

  12. #12
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    I think anyone giving Google free advice is just escaping the fact they're getting badly beat at the game and decided to try a different route to the top, by getting some sympathy from an official google rep.

    Anyone thinking they're making the world a better place by helping Google out has no idea how this world works.

    Google is a FOR-PROFIT, PRIVATELY HELD, CORPORATION not Mother Theresa(God have her in peace).

    &gt;Google is the best thing in the affiliate marketing, and I'm nothing but graceful to them.

    Well I agree, at the moment only though. Every update this can change judging from the ammount of free (and many times GOOD) advice they're giving Google on how to eliminate affiliates, their brothers and their entire families from the face of this planet.

    &gt;So what, if they "PAY" others as well for the benefit of their companies?

    Paying = no big deal. But it should be clearly stated "we pay members to post #@%!"...paying members to PRETEND they're actual members is SICK.


    &gt;&gt;Moneychaser, I agree! If you're talking about the forum I think you are, that place makes me sick


    We can only be talking of the same place.

    Why?

    Because *SICK* is the only word to describe my feeling when I open that forum and some complete &#!@&*! is telling the google chap one more way to sweep us off this planet, for FREE.

    &gt;Maybe Google can send a Google rep to all Webmaster forums not just Webmasterworld. Why not one here?

    Exactly!!! Trust, do you know why?? I do. Cuz Haiko is not doing Google any favors like the OTEHR GUY is. He's making himself and google $$$$ with that forum, and screwing us all!!!

    Edited for profanity. MC you've been told about this before, watch the language. ~ BLFH

    [This message was edited by BLFH on April 19, 2003 at 09:38 AM.]

  13. #13
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    Relax moneychaser , you are little paranoid ...

    You smell some conspiracy in a non-moderator WW member predicting a post will be edited ??... if you are in Webmasterworld for some time and know the TOS well its very easy to say when a post will be edited ( ex : posting url's , complaining about some site with specifics etc etc ... ) ...

    We can argue for days about their TOS , I personally feel that its a very good one and it eliminates forrum spammers and comptitors using it as a SE report tool and also unnecessary posts other than SEO or web stuff . But if you dont like it just dont go there

    Please accept ... WW is THE BEST place to learn about SEO/SEM . Dont you think that SE reps will not be lurking in other SEO forrums ...atleast in WW GG explicitly say he is from google and as far as i see he do a fantastic job of representing his company

    And i will tell ya onething ....Google dont have to lurke in forrums to learn about dirty tricks ... they have the largest internet usage data in the world and they are very very good in data mining ... ( as a example just going thro logs in www2/www3 and adword data will tell them the hottest aff programs )

    And dont worry , that adult backdoor dont work anymore ...

    OK , now i know i will be bombarded with "shut your mounth" posts

    "The Future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their Dreams."

    [This message was edited by KoGo on April 19, 2003 at 02:02 PM.]

  14. #14
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    Hi moneychaser,

    That's an interesting view of WebMasterWorld. Personally, I think WW is a wonderful forum. An absolute wealth of knowledge is contained on those boards - most of which is freely and helpfully shared. If not for that forum, I would have never learned how to optimize my pages, enhance my site navigation structure, learn about new directories to get listed in and learn about the other search engines available besides Google.

    While their TOS seems to upset some people, I can fully understand the need for it. The forum is used by professional SEO and Spammer types - and if signatures and URL's were allowed, it would clutter up the whole place and become a big spam board instead of what it currently is.

    Anyway, must my two cents worth.

    Jim

  15. #15
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    WmW has plenty of pros & cons, I guess that's par for the course for a forum that's grown as large as it has. As for the TOS, yes, it sucks --but it's necessary. As mentioned above, you should be able to predict which posts will be edited/nuked.

    Is there a good ol' boy network? Yes, absolutey, but (as far as I know, and I know a lot about WmW) not like the one you're imagining here. Sometimes, affiliate work and/or seo has as much to do with who you know as what you know.

    As for SEO tricks-of-the-trade being exposed, there are many good tricks left except maybe &lt;noscript&gt;&lt;noframes&gt; in a flat page ...oops, there it goes.

    See you guys at PubCon!

  16. #16
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    Welcome to ABW RC

    "The Future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their Dreams."

  17. #17
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    Thanks, KoGo.

    Typo in the above, should read:
    aren't many good tricks left

    Re all my cozy deals with Google/Fast/PositionTech:
    SearchEngineCommando did give me a free evaluation copy of their software once and Jim Stob paid for my breakfast buffet in Irvine --that might count. Heh, heh, heh.

  18. #18
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    PubCon my @$$.

    &gt;I know a lot about WmW

    I know a lot about disney.

  19. #19
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    LOL.

    Haha. You should attend pubcon moneychaser. Would like to see the pics from that. You and BT can share a .... drink ...

    ----
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    The neighbors complain about the noises above ...

  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    rcjordan,

    SEC and DNC rock!

    ----------

    moneychaser,

    moneychaser my @$$.. I'm a proud attendee of PubCon.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  21. #21
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    Security and Exchange Commission? DNC?

  22. #22
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>DNC? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Democratic National Convention....

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Monuit:
    Security and Exchange Commission? DNC?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...1&m=1946047972

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  24. #24
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    Thanks, Haiko.

    ----
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    The neighbors complain about the noises above ...

  25. #25
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    &gt;You and BT can share a .... drink ...

    After a couple of beers who knows...we might even talk about...uh...war in Iraq..hehehhehe. Kidding.

    &gt;moneychaser my @$$.. I'm a proud attendee of PubCon


    I was saying I don't miss a PubCon! I mean, I was gonna say it anytime now, just that ...you know...like, I was gonna say it, you know uh...
    Who knows... few beers and maybe I'll convince him(BT) to make it illegal by TOS to post any SEO secrets. I'd be happy if some amateurs there would just shut up and talk Google News, not "Every Google Trick in my Book News"

    Anyone from THAT forum reading here??? Please talk *GOOGLE NEWS* EXCLUSIVELY ok? See, you don't make money teaching Google how you beat them at their own game....

    THAT forum should be shut down and BT have watermelon supository donated to him by all us affiliates that don't appreciate our research blasted on the wall for Google to see - every freaking day of the year. Ooooh I get goosebumps every visit to THAT site.

    5 AM people, good night!!! See you all tomorrow.

    ("See you all tomorrow." - I know of at least 3 members here that put their hands to their hair and shook their heads when they saw that I was gonna return tomorrow....to you that shook your head, well, good night see you tomorrow )

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