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  1. #1
    Internet Cowboy
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    Chris,
    I understand that Blair has rules against trademark bidding and that is great. But, you are also partnered with EVERY BHO parasite adware application and the net effect of them is even worse than someone bidding on your trademark. At least someone bidding on your trademark requires a click. Adware does not even require a click and the application targets your domain name, pops, sets a cookie without a click and claims a commission. So really, what's the big deal as far as your company is concerned with someone bidding on your trademarks? The parasite affiliate partners you have are much, much worse and cost you and your affiliates MUCH more money.

    BTW, I am not an active Blair affiliate. I am not the affiliate he is talking about. But I see this entire thread as terribly mis-guided when this is one of the dirtiest programs in the affiliate marketing space. Doesn't anyone here care about the facts anymore?

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Scooter, that brings to mind this post

    Moosejaw has been working with eBates since before we were working with Moosejaw. We advise our clients not to work with software affiliates and have had long conversations about this topic. In the end they prefered to keep them in the program.
    __________________
    Brook Schaaf

    IN the case of Chuck Hamrick he had the spine to kick them out

    So you see so many people talk about it, but living it is another problem.

    Same in the pet industry, when I see our affiliates associate with our competitors that have BHO merchants on their it is disturbing.
    Bob Pets Warehouse
    Worlds Largest Pet Supply DataBase
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  3. #3
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    Scooter, that brings to mind this post

    Moosejaw has been working with eBates since before we were working with Moosejaw. We advise our clients not to work with software affiliates and have had long conversations about this topic. In the end they prefered to keep them in the program.
    __________________
    Brook Schaaf

    IN the case of Chuck Hamrick he had the spine to kick them out

    So you see so many people talk about it, but living it is another problem.

    Same in the pet industry, when I see our affiliates associate with our competitors that have BHO merchants on their it is disturbing.
    Huh? I fail to see what any of that has to do with a dirty affiliate program coming here to complain about one thing when they have much worse problems that they condone.
    So you dump a merchant and an OPM in the grease that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? Amazing!
    Continue the witch hunt Bob.

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh, yes!

    Hey Scooter! Good to hear from you. I don't come to ABW all that much anymore. Last I checked, you made a grand exit, vowing never to return. Old habits die hard, huh?

    I had hoped we could keep this thread on TM bidding, but I guess I'll post one "quick" response. Of course, I feel there are many, many differences between what you've stated, but by far the biggest difference has to do with our trademarks. It is my firm belief that merchants need to actively protect their trademarks to keep them from becoming watered down.

    Now... to tie both of these issues together. I know, Scooter, that you've been attacking me on this issue for quite some time. What people should know is that you used to be an affiliate of Blair.com, WHILE you were telling all the other ABW'ers that they shouldn't be. You stopped being an affiliate of Blair.com in the fall of '06 when Blair.com changed their policy on TM bidding. You even told me that I'd be losing a lot of business by not allowing you to bid on Blair trademarks, because you were in the process of putting together a site dealing with apparel.

    I have a lot of respect for you, and feel you are a positive influence on the industry. There are many, many merchants partnered with each and every loyalty site. For some reason, you feel it's necessary to continually attack me on the issue. I just think the rest of this community should read your posts and understand it's "do as I say, not as I do."

    My only reason for starting this thread was to give a "heads up" to other AM's, OPM's, etc. Happy Holidays!
    Christopher Park
    Affiliate/Partnerships Manager
    Blair.com
    cjpark@blair.com
    (814)726-6074
    AIM: BLAIRAffiliates
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  5. #5
    Internet Cowboy
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    Chris,
    First off, let me say that I think you are a hell of a nice guy. I have hung with you and you are a lot of fun, so please don't take anything I post personally as it is NOT meant that way.
    We obviously have some differences in opinion, and that's fine.
    My point was not to "attack" you. It was to point out that this new focus here at ABW seems terribly mis-guided to me.
    You cleaned out a trademark poacher and I applaud you for that. This person was clearly and flagrantly violating your rules and you did the right thing. But isn't the whole "loyalty" (as you put it) site a larger issue? Why would your company not allow someone to bid on your trademark yet you allow a Top Moxie application to monitor the activities of the host computer and pop and set a cookie with no click? I truly don't get it.
    I would love to discuss this with you and maybe I'll give you a call after the holidays and we can discuss this offline.
    Happy Holidays to you too man. I wish you the very best and always look forward to drinking a cold one with you.

  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    you are also partnered with EVERY BHO parasite adware application and the net effect of them is even worse than someone bidding on your trademark. At least someone bidding on your trademark requires a click. Adware does not even require a click and the application targets your domain name, pops, sets a cookie without a click and claims a commission. So really, what's the big deal as far as your company is concerned with someone bidding on your trademarks? The parasite affiliate partners you have are much, much worse and cost you and your affiliates MUCH more money.
    Earlier, I applauded (and I continue to do so) your outing of a TM cheater to others, but Scoot does have a point here (and I loudly and vociferously boo that part of what you do).

    And I don't believe anyone is powerless to make progress with their partners, especially when you're trying to improve their margins and their total net profit. But I do agree it can take time, sometimes considerable time. So I hope you can find a way to indicate your agreement there and to also update us on your efforts towards that obviously needed goal, one that also happens to protect and properly value the work of your ethical affiliates at the same time.

  7. #7
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    Adware does not even require a click and the application targets your domain name, pops, sets a cookie without a click and claims a commission.
    OK, Donuts.

    I see the link in your footer talking about adware. Very nice explanation. Can you point out which adware Blair is partnered with that performs as UncleScooter has indicated above?
    Christopher Park
    Affiliate/Partnerships Manager
    Blair.com
    cjpark@blair.com
    (814)726-6074
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  8. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Chris, I seen your positioning before, it serves to undermine your reputation, if that's possible.

    So I'll play along, if you insist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blair.com
    I see the link in your footer talking about adware. Very nice explanation. Can you point out which adware Blair is partnered with that performs as UncleScooter has indicated above?
    Yes, I can.

    What's next on your agenda?

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

    Forgive me for assuming you would actually post which adware it is, so that we might be able to discuss it. And... if it is doing as Scooter states, I'd be willing to look into getting rid of it.

    But instead, you've chosen to play games and start attacking me personally. So be it. I'm not going to play your games, so go find someone else to pass your time with.
    Christopher Park
    Affiliate/Partnerships Manager
    Blair.com
    cjpark@blair.com
    (814)726-6074
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  10. #10
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    You have chosen, for a long time, to take a path that steals return day commissions from honest affiliates Chris, my criticism of you is not personal, it's professional.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    .
    Last edited by Blair.com; December 20th, 2007 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Not worth it.
    Christopher Park
    Affiliate/Partnerships Manager
    Blair.com
    cjpark@blair.com
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  12. #12
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    And another one gets added to my "do not join" list. Sad. Very sad.

    Shouldn't you guys know what BHOs you are partnered with? Why should donuts or anyone else have to point them out?

    -sfcom


  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager Howard Gottlieb's Avatar
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    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die
    to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there
    isn't and die to find out there is.

  14. #14
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    And another one gets added to my "do not join" list. Sad. Very sad.

    Shouldn't you guys know what BHOs you are partnered with? Why should donuts or anyone else have to point them out?

    -sfcom
    Ditto that.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
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  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    I know who is in our program. And I'm nearly certain that there are no affiliates in the program performing as Uncle Scooter stated, and backed up by Donuts. When I asked Donuts which he was speaking of, he decided to change the discussion.

    I know a good deal about what's being discussed, and I know it's not as simple as classifying everthing under one "catch all" phrase. I'm sure Scooter would agree with that.

    Once again... I stopped by ABW to provide AM's with some info that I felt would be important to them, and Donuts has successfully hijacked the thread for his enjoyment.

    If any other AM's would like the information regarding the affiliate, feel free to contact me. Additionally, if ANYONE would like to discuss ANYTHING with me, my contact information is in my signature. I won't be posting again in this thread.

    Merry Christmas.
    Christopher Park
    Affiliate/Partnerships Manager
    Blair.com
    cjpark@blair.com
    (814)726-6074
    AIM: BLAIRAffiliates
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  16. #16
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    You have chosen, for a long time, to take a path that steals return day commissions from honest affiliates
    I don't know the history, but while I also avoid partnering with merchants who work with BHOs, I still say kudos for booting the TM poacher. It's a step in the right direction. Poachers steal quite a few return day commissions themselves...
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  17. #17

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    It's just terrible that all those sales were going directly to the merchant. God what is this world coming to when people are making money?

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    Back when I was actively promoting a women's clothing site, I checked out and/or joined just about every merchant on Linkshare in the vertical, and every single one, down to the last one, had the same bunch of loyalty programs. LS & CJ. So does the bunch at PFX.

    But I do have to say that all things being equal, Blair outperformed all the rest of them all put together, for sales and conversions and commissions - every single month, consistently. I also have to say about Chris as an AM, he rivals the best of them out there for responsiveness and assistance.

    I'm *not* saying it's OK, but that's how the vertical is, they're all tied up with the same bunch. So it's a matter of either live with it, get rid of the domain, park it, or turn it into a MFA site. The option available to avoid it is to stay away from that vertical completely,

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Wait a cotton picking minute here!

    This thread is about Blair booting a an unethical affiliate. As per the title of this forum. If anybody has been an Anti Blair person over the years because of their positioning with the parasites -- it's me!! Just ask Chris. LOL Does that lessen the value of helping other managers with information on a clearly unethical affiliate, I don't think so.

    OK let's look at this thread transformation:


    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter
    It was to point out that this new focus here at ABW seems terribly mis-guided to me.
    Why is CP's helping other AMs with a bad player mis-guided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blair.com
    What people should know is that you used to be an affiliate of Blair.com, WHILE you were telling all the other ABW'ers that they shouldn't be. You stopped being an affiliate of Blair.com in the fall of '06 when Blair.com changed their policy on TM bidding.
    Quote Originally Posted by scooter
    So really, what's the big deal as far as your company is concerned with someone bidding on your trademarks?
    So I get it ... you were removed for TM bidding, decide to derail this thread, and then claim ABW is misguided. Most should get it as well, 1+1 does = 2 there is NOTHING misguided with that, nor here.

    -----------
    Admin Note: This off topic banter has been split off from CP's original thread.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Thread was split off the original thread located at: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=98989
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  21. #21
    Full Member ske9963's Avatar
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    Chris,

    Just a FYI on Browser Helper Object (BHO) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_Helper_Object

    Two major players in the market
    - uPromise (5% cash back)
    - eBates (6% cash back)

    What is your stand on BHO?
    Ma, where the beer? :escape:

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Being against those who work with or favor parasiteware in ABWers' DNA. So, it is not surprising to see these kind of reactions.

    A trademark poacher does not steal my rightful commissions, but parasiteware does. Guess which one I am going to care about? And coming to this community and announcing how you 'bravely' removed a trademark bidding affiliate in "Unethical Affiliates" forum, while working with all of notoriously unethical ones, won't win you any awards.
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    Hello 2002? 2001? I like when chris plays dumb, he has been doing it for so many years...well gosh, gotta wonder...

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador
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    Perhaps, the next step of Chris is going to be cleaning up the program from BHO/Parasite players. One hopes

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager Blair.com's Avatar
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    OK. I'll jump in really quick here.

    ske9963 -- Thanks for the wiki article. Wow! I've learned so much now. And congrats! I see you've ALMOST been at ABW for a whole year, now.

    Sam -- Which do you care about? It's ALL about you, isn't it? I posted this to help AM's. Heck -- when I posted it in the AM category, I didn't even think affiliates would be able to see it.

    Chetf -- I may "play" dumb. [removed]

    Redtagdeals -- Wow! That takes the cake! ME cleaning up my program? Coming from Redtagdeals?!? Are you kidding? Glass houses my friend. Glass houses.
    Last edited by MichaelColey; December 21st, 2007 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Removed personal attack
    Christopher Park
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