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  1. #1
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Yahoo PPC
    I just opened a new Yahoo account with $75 credit, after abandoning them for several years. I must say they have come a long way in making their system more intuitive and user-friendly. Also, you don't have to wait a few days for your keywords to be approved, one by one.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I am still having to adjust KW bids daily, and manually starting and pausing our campaigns daily in order to trigger impressions. They have had this glitch for over a year now and have still not fixed it. I reported this on this board in early 2007. In speaking with a tech supervisor last year, he informed me of the problem and instructed that if I would manually adjust bids even one penny up or down each day, it would trigger the system to the KW's and increase impressions.

    I have been doing that for a year now, which is a real pain in the butt. But if I do not do it, we see a sharp decline in impressions served. For instance, two weeks ago, using the KW "Diabetic Supplies" - I adjusted the bid up or down one penny each day. The result for the week was 621 ad impressions served.

    Last week, I left the bid constant for this one KW for the week. The result; 64 impressions. On Sun, Mon, Tues and today (of this week) I adjusted the bid up or down one penny each day. The result so far (Sun - Wed nite) 513 impressions served. So the problem is still there. I reported this to them via email today.

    In addition, they still do not offer ad scheduling (as in daily run time scheduling, turn on / turn off etc). They have been telling me for over a year that this is a priority in their tech dept, but I still do not see it as an option. As for traffic quality.....

    We've run Y steadily 24 / 7 for over 5 years and based on results their traffic, though it has improved a little in volume the past month (versus past 18 months) it is still well below G for quality. I would love nothing more than for someone to actually offer G some competition in PPC. It would be good for business and competitive pricing if someone would. But at this point Y is a long way from that. I'll keep my fingers crossed for them. Maybe the new CEO actually knows how to access, compose and send an email, which would put them well ahead of their last choice. LOL
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  3. #3
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Hamilton
    I am still having to adjust KW bids daily, and manually starting and pausing our campaigns daily in order to trigger impressions. They have had this glitch for over a year now and have still not fixed it. I reported this on this board in early 2007. In speaking with a tech supervisor last year, he informed me of the problem and instructed that if I would manually adjust bids even one penny up or down each day, it would trigger the system to the KW's and increase impressions.

    I have been doing that for a year now, which is a real pain in the butt. But if I do not do it, we see a sharp decline in impressions served. For instance, two weeks ago, using the KW "Diabetic Supplies" - I adjusted the bid up or down one penny each day. The result for the week was 621 ad impressions served.

    Last week, I left the bid constant for this one KW for the week. The result; 64 impressions. On Sun, Mon, Tues and today (of this week) I adjusted the bid up or down one penny each day. The result so far (Sun - Wed nite) 513 impressions served. So the problem is still there. I reported this to them via email today.

    In addition, they still do not offer ad scheduling (as in daily run time scheduling, turn on / turn off etc). They have been telling me for over a year that this is a priority in their tech dept, but I still do not see it as an option. As for traffic quality.....

    We've run Y steadily 24 / 7 for over 5 years and based on results their traffic, though it has improved a little in volume the past month (versus past 18 months) it is still well below G for quality. I would love nothing more than for someone to actually offer G some competition in PPC. It would be good for business and competitive pricing if someone would. But at this point Y is a long way from that. I'll keep my fingers crossed for them. Maybe the new CEO actually knows how to access, compose and send an email, which would put them well ahead of their last choice. LOL
    I find it amazing that they would not fix this! And they wonder why they can't compete with Google? That's like a new car dealer telling you "Yeah the cruise control on the new car you just bought doesn't work consistently, but it will reset itself if you stop along the side of the road for 10 minutes every hour". I expect these campaigns to run with much less attention than that - and the ones I have running at Google and MSN do run fine without daily attention once I have tested and fine tuned them.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Well, as expected, I received the below email from Y support this morning. Feel free to send them an email requesting intraday ad scheduling. This pretty much says it all about the state of efficiency at Y. Hopefully one day they will see the wisdom of actually listening to their advertisers........

    Jan 2 2008 05:32 PT

    Hello Alan,

    Unfortunately we are presently unable provide an exact timeframe for the ability to control the times of day or days of the week that ads run through an automated system. Currently our Campaign scheduling feature allows advertisers to determine the dates a campaign will begin and end, but does not include intra-day scheduling. You are as always welcome to manually turn your account on or off at any time.

    We appreciate your commitment to this feature. We are continually evaluating the features and tools we provide for our advertisers and it's important for us to know which features our advertisers most desire. We'll pass this along to our developers to consider for future implementation.
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  5. #5
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Well I emailed them with a few questions last night. Am yet to hear back anything.
    I wanted to know how quickly reports are updated. Also wanted to know what the minimum monthly spend was. None of that info is in their "Help".

    I get the feeling I will be using up my $30 plus their $75 and then be going on my way.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I predicted that the changes made at Y would be good for the little guy and would negatively impact the larger advertisers because they were moving to be more like Google, stressing relevance and specificity over bid. Back then, Trust disagreed with my forecast. Well, Y has not changed for the better for any size advertisers. And from all I talk with -- small, medium and large -- the frustration continues. So what I thought would come from Panama, didn't. And Trust was right - the little guy didn't benefit either (as I had said would happen). And neither did the big guy. Everyone's losing ground there ay Y, no matter what their size.

    In my own PPC spending, Yahoo is now smaller than my spend at MSN and shrinking and the spend I manage on behalf of my PPC consulting clients is following that same trend. The traffic at Y, despite whatever changes they may have made to the system, has continually degraded. In my opinion, they brought in low quality ad partners and syndicators in a desperate attempt to start catching up to G's growth. So Panama made no difference - if the advertisers in the network are crap, the features and performance of the platform are completely irrelevant.

    Here's a great article (for PPC people) about dollars being spent on the big engines:
    http://blog.efrontier.com/insights/2...es-upward.html

    From that article:
    "The share of Efficient Frontier's total search engine spend on Google increased from 71% in November 2006 to 77% in November 2007. Yahoo Search dropped from 23.5% to 18%, while MSN dropped from 4.9% to 4.1%. Incremental spend grew on all the engines during this period as we added new clients and legacy clients increased spend, but a disproportionate share of that growth has been on Google."

    Efficient Frontier has a huge spend across many clients and verticals - so I put a lot of weight into their reported numbers, as an indicator of Y's health in the PPC revenue battle.

    To me, panama (the Y project to revamp their bidding system) is like getting a brand new drinking straw... and replacing the chocolate milk shake people were drinking with sewage... the delivery system, the straw, has been somewhat improved, but who gives a crap, I'm choking on swampy shitake that's coming out of it!!!

    IAC (ask jeeves / ask.com) is also moving backwards:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080102/iac_i..._the_bell.html

    There was talk before of MSN and Yahoo/Overture merging and those talks died off... they were considering merging into a single platform and saw Y's changes (Panama) were coming and nobody would chose a changing system as the platform to go forward on and nobody wanted to use MSN cuz Panama was supposed to make things so much better... but I think we've reached the point where Panama is showing itself to be a failure in many regards... so I'm guessing the talks between MSN and Y will soon reignite, this time with Panama being flushed, MSN leading the way and MSN acquiring Y instead of merging.

    But I gotta add, I'm all full of crazy ideas today. Still in holiday party mode I think...

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I disagreed with your prediction too, I just didn't bother to argue about it as long as Trust did.

    *Adds another helping of crow to your plate*

    I still disagree that even the "drinking straw" has been improved. To continue with your analogy, it's compressed compost in a tube shape; a commie screw-the-rich plan painted in fancy colors. The whole wretched concept belongs in Cuba or N. Korea.

    low quality ad partners and syndicators
    I think all the PPC places could improve on their traffic sources. It's been ages since I haven't seen a significant amount of dross in the traffic stream of both G and Y.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  8. #8
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    BTW, since this thread crossed over, the Y Search Blog announcements on when they update the index are for organic search results, which is a completely different thing from their PPC.

    An update to the algo and the index has nothing whatsoever to do with PPC. Different department, different technology, different system.

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    From that article:
    IAC (ask jeeves / ask.com) is also moving backwards:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080102/iac_i..._the_bell.html..
    Speaking of Jeeves / ask...... Got this today.........

    Re: Legal Notice of Class Action Settlement Affecting Your Rights

    Legal Notice:

    If you purchased online advertising from IAC Search & Media, Inc. and/or Ask Jeeves, Inc. (collectively "Ask") between August 1, 2005 and the present, you may be a class member in a class-action lawsuit, Lane's Gifts and Collectibles et al. v. Ask Jeeves, Inc. et al., Case No. CV-2005-52-1, in the Circuit Court of Miller County, Arkansas. This notice advises you of your legal rights.

    You should review the detailed Settlement Notice as soon as possible, as there are several important deadlines that you must meet to take certain actions in connection with a proposed settlement of the class action lawsuit. Your legal rights are affected whether you act or do not act. The deadline for filing an objection or excluding yourself from the proposed settlement is February 2, 2008, and the last day to file a claim under the proposed settlement is February 2, 2008. For further information, please refer to the Settlement Notice.

    The Settlement Notice informs you of the Court's certification of a class for settlement purposes; the nature of the claims alleged; your right to participate in, or exclude yourself from, the class; a proposed settlement; and how you can claim an award of advertising credits under the settlement or object to the settlement.


    The proposed settlement will provide advertising credits to class members who certify that they were the victims of "click fraud" or other invalid or improper clicks on online advertisements purchased from IAC Search & Media, Inc. and/or Ask Jeeves, Inc. on or after August 1, 2005.


    The proposed settlement will resolve claims that IAC Search & Media, Inc. and/or Ask Jeeves, Inc. breached its contracts with advertisers and violated other laws by failing to adequately detect and stop "click fraud" or other invalid or improper clicks on online advertisements.


    If you are a member of the class, your legal rights are affected by whether you act or do not act.

    For a copy of the Settlement Notice, click on the link, or visit the case website at www.AskSettlement.com.

    To file a claim for your award of advertising credits under the settlement, click on the following link: AskSettlement.com/claim. Each advertiser will be allowed one claim per account.
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  10. #10
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    OK, I started an ad two nights ago. The ad ran that night fine but conversion was not quite good enough. So I decided to send keywords to specific page URLs - that was yesterday morning. None of the keywords run now. I called support and they don't know what is happening. My case has been submitted to tech support and I will receive a reply in 24-48 hrs. They were nice enough and helpful, but my ad is not running.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  11. #11
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    If MSN bought out Yahoo!, I think MSN search would get the flush. Their back end stinks: poor reporting, bid management, ad management, etc. etc. they seem like a work in progress, or better yet....a work in regress. Every update they do it seems like they go backwards.
    I don't see how Yahoo! is failing. My spending with them is up 80% last year. Of course, what i spend doesn't mean Yahoo! is making money overall..but from what I can tell in the industries I'm in - there average PPC cost has gone up.
    I just think Yahoo!'s biggest problem is lack of search queres. They can't make money with their search volume is going down. What Yahoo! can do to increase their search position: who knows.
    One advantage they have over Google is simply this: memberships. I mean, who doesn't have a Yahoo! account for something. Why they can't leverage their account base is beyond me.
    I have heard a rumor that they may dump Panama, and just contract with Google to have their ads show on Yahoo! If they did that...I just wonder about 2 things: #1, if Google users would want their ads to show on Yahoo!, and #2: how the heck would this increase their bottom line when their search postion is decreasing every month?
    They also do have some bad search partners in their network. They do have domain blocking which is a good service.
    I know I'm a rare bleed, but I am a Panama fan.

  12. #12
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    UPDATE: My ad is now running as of last night! And conversions are much better than initial ad.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  13. #13
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    Yahoo PPC - Opting Out of Search Partner Network
    Read with interest Alan & Donuts comments on the Yahoo PPC scene.

    We noticed a huge change in conversion (downward) after the launch of Yahoo's Panama ad platform. We spent weeks interacting with Yahoo on this and not once did anyone indicate that the problem might be the garbage sites that Yahoo allowed into its PPC Search Partner Network with the launch of the Panama. We eventually realized what the problem was/is.

    Panama brought new costly PPC search traffic from 1) parked domains, 2)international traffic that was not supposed to be allowed though to our North American campaign, and 3) suspect sites that don't display "search" that can only be described as "click-farms". Yahoo introduced the ability to block up to 250 sites to combat the click fraud problems but that only works AFTER the site has sent useless traffic. Further, 250 clock quickly proved to be far too small - unlimited blocked is needed.

    Our Yahoo PPC spend has been chopped by 90% and it seems of little consequence to Yahoo.

    Several questions - 1) has anyone heard when and if Yahoo will allow PPC advertisers to opt out of the Search Partner Network? Google does this and it has proven quite helpful in reducing PPC fraud. 2) any suggestions as to how we might review and regenerate the Yahoo PPC blocked domain list?

    Thanks for any input and once again great/helpful posts.

  14. #14
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    What chaps me about Yahoo is the way you have to pay in advance. Also the organic traffic coming into my site has lousy relevance.


  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    As their market share decreases, they have been willing to do anything to keep the click volume up, shooting their advertisers ROI in the foot. This slide has been going on for years and is unrelated to panama, in my opinion. Truth is, a lot of junkware ads are now distributed through Y, to the point where there's little real difference between miva and abcsearch and yahoo except that Y does mix in real traffic from the Y portal (but it's proportion is ever shrinking, making it irrelevant). Stick a fork in them, from an advertisers perspective, they are now just a second tier search engine.

    The only thing that can save them from their own bad judgment is a deal with G's adwords that makes them so much money they turn the corner. G's smart pricing will make sure the mixed in crapola clicks don't bury the advertisers spend in muck.

  16. #16
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    Yahoo PPC Click Fraud
    Yahoo PPC used to turn our cwank - more so than G. But Panama immediately turned that around.

    If Yahoo allowed us to only display ads on Yahoo Search properties and segement out Search Partners then we'd likely return, but I'm hearing that's not likely to happen for quite some time if at all. Has anyone heard anything different?

    My understanding is that if Y & G proceed that the G ads will appear in the bottom third of a Yahoo search page. I'm not sure how effective this will be or how we should modify our current strategy (if it proceeds).

    Thanks for your feedback.

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