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  1. #1
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Ain't America Great! (% of millionaire households!)
    I was reading today about the newest state rankings for (published by a company that's involved in marketing luxury items to the wealthy) for how much money people have...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_most_millionaires

    Here's an excerpt:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    According to the service, in 2007, 7.12 percent of New Jersey's 3.2 million households had a total of $1 million or more liquid or investable assets. That includes items such as savings, stocks and bonds, precious metals, the cash value of certain life insurance policies and retirement accounts not controlled by employers, but not equity in homes.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    7.12%.

    Wow, blew me away!

    More than 7% of the households in NJ are millionaires, excluding their home's equity.

    I sell certain luxury items on the Internet and I've been surprised many times by the size of some orders. I had an order over the holidays well over $6,000 for one product I sell. Last week, in a totally different niche, I had an order for over $3,500. And over the holidays, I bought an HDTV (from Vanns, SAS merchant) that was one of my larger purchases online myself.

    Next time someone talks about how bad things are, keep in mind that they need to sell newspapers and tv ads, so they're a tad prone to exaggerate.

    7.12%, it's a big number. If you go to a football game or basketball game, with their high ticket prices, I'm wondering how much higher than 7% the millionaire ratio would be in the building... skip stuffing flyers in the walmart parking lot... head for the stadiums / arenas... and golf course parking lots... and yacht club parking... heheheee.

  2. #2
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    Pretty good detailed data here
    http://www.phoenixmi.com/prfiles/Sta..._2005-2007.xls

    Avg. Nationwide Millionaire HHs went from 4.3% in 2005 to 5.25% in 2007. A good trend. Not sure if the stats take into consideration inflation / dollar depreciation into account. Without that data, we cannot say if Americans are getting richer or poorer year over year!.

    California has top most number of millionaire HHs. That number will be even higher with Home Equities

    I saved this data now so it will be useful when it comes to determining advertising spends by state and other marketing purposes.

    Good find, Donuts.

  3. #3
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Cool find!

    I love the way the media grumbles about how badly we're doing. You'll never see this story in the headlines ... would make people feel too good and give them hope. While I love a lot of the media, most of it is shameful and skewed.

    Thanks for the uplifting post, Donuts!
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  4. #4
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    I just wish I was one of those HouseHolds...........

  5. #5
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    There will always be wealthy people/households/families during recessions and depressions etc...

    The Kennedy Family made their fortune with short sales in the stock market and were an example of a wealthy family that existed during the Great Depression. Their existence (as an example of a wealthy family/household) didn't negate the financial hardships felt by the majority of Americans during that difficult financial time ... That family (as an extended whole) is still wealthy, maybe one of the members of the family will buy a high definition/flat/plasma/laser/whatever television from me if I make such a website
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  6. #6
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    I'd like to see a study showing the amount of millionaires across the United States as a whole and to analyze the demographics. I believe there are wealthy people in New Jersey, but I could name other areas where the wealthy live as well ... in fact such data exists already, take a look at http://www.city-data.com/

    The fact that millionaires exist doesn't really do anything [either pro or con] for my personal situation.
    Oh wait a minute ... one wealthy individual's C&D order prompted Blogger/Google to delete one of my blog entries and that's thrown me for a loop [but that's a different story and he wasn't from the U.S. anyway]

    Anyone who thinks that the looming financial problem facing the U.S. will be short lived and limited to mortgage and foreclosure problems should read:
    Cool Hand Bernanke Protects a Bankrupt Fed and then decide if gossip of bad news merely exists to sell newspapers and magazines
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7

    The fact that millionaires exist doesn't really do anything [either pro or con] for my personal situation.
    Wait a minute. It does make a difference. Generally, one can sell more to them or they spend more on average!. And the IRS can expect a lot more from them. And the list goes on and on!!. All of these would make a difference to everyone in the society.

  8. #8
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Wait a minute. It does make a difference. Generally, one can sell more to them or they spend more on average!. And the IRS can expect a lot more from them. And the list goes on and on!!. All of these would make a difference to everyone in the society.
    I have made affiliate sales but I doubt any of my customers were millionaires.
    Some luxury merchants won't affiliate with a certain affiliate for a variety of reasons, not everyone pitches (or is able to pitch) Neiman Marcus (as an example) clientele.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    Anyone who thinks that the looming financial problem facing the U.S. will be short lived and limited to mortgage and foreclosure problems should read:
    Cool Hand Bernanke Protects a Bankrupt Fed and then decide if gossip of bad news merely exists to sell newspapers and magazines
    The above was a good read. Living off of trillions of dollars of debt does not bode well for any nation. And the somewhere down the road, we all pay the price. Wait a minute, are we not already paying it?. What is the value of dollar against Euro or CDN or even an Indian Rupee. Murky, at best!

  10. #10
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    All of these would make a difference to everyone in the society.

    Read Between Bernanke's Lines: Things Are Going To Get Worse



    Btw, don't shoot the messenger
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 11th, 2008 at 11:33 PM.
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  11. #11
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Wait a minute. It does make a difference. Generally, one can sell more to them or they spend more on average!. And the IRS can expect a lot more from them. And the list goes on and on!!. All of these would make a difference to everyone in the society.
    Did the fact that wealthy people lived during the Great Depression alleviate the problems for the masses? Hmmm?

    By the way, rich people spent money during that difficult economic period, but it didn't help the average person.
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  12. #12
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Wait a minute. It does make a difference. Generally, one can sell more to them or they spend more on average!
    A friend of mine who is a Realtor with a focus on expensive, luxury vacation homes told me times will be tough.
    [It will be more difficult to obtain a mortgage ... there will be a credit crunch ... and other non fun-zee-ay stuff]


    If you think that everything will be Easy Street for the average affiliate because someone wealthy like Paris Hilton likes to spend money, you're kidding -- most webmasters will not get her attention (or the attention of a similar person of wealth).
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 11th, 2008 at 11:45 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Wow .. a lot of shooting from R7!

    If you agree, that on average wealthy spend more (more consumption) and pay more taxes, then these dollars will make a difference in the society. Directly or Indirectly it will make a difference on everyone. Period. BTW - I am not talking here of your affiliate income. And whatever is the "difference" that it makes may be so miniscule to alleviate the trillions of debt, years of bad mistakes and overspend, sub-prime / credit card crises or whatever.

    In general, I agree with you R7, that the economy is headed for tougher times. And I am not disputing that at all. In fact, even though the number of US$ millionaires in the US went up from 4.77 million HHs in 2005 to 5.97 million HHs in 2007 for a 25% growth, the real rate of growth would have been NEGATIVE after accounting for the "inflation" and more than "25%" drop in dollar value against all major currencies in the same period.

    Did the "millionaire" HHs grew from 2005 to 2007?. Yes. Did their purchasing power grew?. Hell NO!

  14. #14
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Wow .. a lot of shooting from R7!
    If you agree, that on average wealthy spend more (more consumption) and pay more taxes, then these dollars will make a difference in the society. Directly or Indirectly it will make a difference on everyone.
    As someone who minored in economics under the tutelage of a Marxist economist [and no, I am not a Marxist or a Socialist -- in fact someone once stopped me in a park asking me to sign a petition to enable a Socialist to run for some type of political office, I refused to sign but I said "Good Luck" ], I must say that the wsws.org just put up a very compelling article that is worth the read regardless of political persuasion -- the article is not political, it is an analysis of economic theory applied to recent economic events.

    I disagree with you, redtagdeals; I think you are oversimplifying a difficult situation. I can't believe that you have not experienced the recessions that have gone on within the scope of my lifetime.

    Anyway here's a good counterpoint to your points above:
    ... It underscores that the American ruling elite will respond to the economic crisis by seeking to place the burden of its economic problems—fueled by the speculative mania of Wall Street investors—upon the backs of working people.
    US Federal Reserve chairman warns of recession danger, promises more rate cuts
    The article is fodder for thought.

    I hope that the situation does not get as bad as some of the predictions I've heard. Commerce, e-commerce won't stop but things will be difficult for many. A friend of mine said, "Get ready for a rough ride" and I replied, "Gee, thanks."
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  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Pretty good detailed data here
    http://www.phoenixmi.com/prfiles/Sta..._2005-2007.xls

    Avg. Nationwide Millionaire HHs went from 4.3% in 2005 to 5.25% in 2007. A good trend. Not sure if the stats take into consideration inflation / dollar depreciation into account. Without that data, we cannot say if Americans are getting richer or poorer year over year!.

    California has top most number of millionaire HHs. That number will be even higher with Home Equities

    I saved this data now so it will be useful when it comes to determining advertising spends by state and other marketing purposes.

    Good find, Donuts.
    California has the most "number" of millionaires, but not the highest ratio of millionaires versus population. At 25,000,000 population, I was not surprised that they would have the highest number of bigs. But the 7% of population in NJ is a stunner.

    Donuts good thinking matey :-)
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  16. #16
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    If you agree, that on average wealthy spend more (more consumption) and pay more taxes, then these dollars will make a difference in the society. Directly or Indirectly it will make a difference on everyone.
    Wealthy people have always been around (at least in our country) -- if their consumption is the function to good things for all then how did we get into the current financial/fiscal mess?

    There's more to it than: where do the wealthy take vacations and what type of designer clothing do they like to wear?

    According to your theory, wealthy consumption could have avoided our current crises altogether

    Why was there a recession in 1991? Didn't wealthy people consume back then? Your theory sounds like this: as long as wealthy people exist there will be no recessions or depressions -- everything will be hunky dory as long as Paris Hilton (or someone of similar wealth) continues with her lifestyle [i.e. extravagant spending]. Why are there poor and homeless people? Don't they benefit from "trickle down economics?"

    I am reminded of the cartoon of 3 monkeys covering themselves: hear no evil, speak no evil, say no evil
    One can choose to close one's eyes but here's another non fun-zee-ay report (from the Irish Independent -- a newspaper online)
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 12th, 2008 at 12:53 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    Wealthy people have always been around (at least in our country) -- if their consumption is the function to good things for all then how did we get into the current financial/fiscal mess?
    Because there are more than 95% who are not even millionaires. LOL. Kidding aside, I never said consumption by 5% will rule out the mess created by all.


    According to your theory, wealthy consumption could have avoided our current crises altogether

    I never said that .. go and read my posts and put some analytic brain behind it .. and drop your political / socialist or other prejudices.

    Why was there a recession in 1991? Didn't wealthy people consume back then? Your theory sounds like this: as long as wealthy people exist there will be no recessions or depressions -- everything will be hunky dory as long as Paris Hilton (or someone of similar wealth) continues with her lifestyle [i.e. extravagant spending]. Why are there poor and homeless people? Don't they benefit from "trickle down economics?"
    Any consumption will trickle down and touch many. It will not avoid the deep recessions or more larger issues or poverty. In an ideal world, it would be great everyone in the World (7 or 8 billion) to be at least USD millionires. Would that be great


    I am reminded of the cartoon of 3 monkeys covering themselves: hear no evil, speak no evil, say no evil
    One can choose to close one's eyes but here's another non fun-zee-ay report (from the Irish Independent -- a newspaper online)
    Go and read my posts again. I even said that our country is headed for tougher times. Go and read - take your prejudiced lenses off. And wear a bit of analytical hat

  18. #18
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    I think Donut's original intent by posting this article was to point out that the POTENTIAL to MAKE millions exists, in N.J, in CA and anywhere in the USA. The ability to make money is there.

    What the general economy is doing is an altogether different picture.
    Peace,

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  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    I have a feeling the mods are going to be very, very busy from here on out, removing political posts and threads...
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  20. #20
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Okay, this thread is closed until we can remove the political rants. I would just delete the whole thread, but I think there's some good relevence here.

    Jackson: You've been warned before. You're taking a 3-day vacation.

    Everyone else: Let's keep the partisan politics out of it.
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  21. #21
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    MODERATOR NOTE: Okay, the pure partisan political post and the responses to it have been removed. The thread is re-opened.

    I'm leaving the general economic posts for now, but if they continue to lead us down the path toward partisan politics, either those posts will also be removed or the entire thread will be locked or deleted.

    Let's keep the discussion within the narrow confines of political posts that are allowed here. Nothing partisan, offensive, or argumentative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    I have made affiliate sales but I doubt any of my customers were millionaires.
    Rhia, have you had at least 20 affiliate sales? If you have, odds are that at least one (out of every 20) came from one of the millionaire households from the report Donuts found. Nationwide, 5.25% of households exceed that threshold. That's huge.
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  22. #22
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    I wish my household was one of them!

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  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador newestuser's Avatar
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    a million bucks isn't what it used to be. I'd be curious to see the same lists with $5mil, $10mil, $20mil...

  24. #24
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Rhia, have you had at least 20 affiliate sales?
    At least 20 affiliate sales between the years of 1998 - 2008.
    [Yeah, 2 a year sounds right ]

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    If you have, odds are that at least one (out of every 20) came from one of the millionaire households from the report Donuts found. Nationwide, 5.25% of households exceed that threshold. That's huge.
    Are you saying that "millionaires" are more likely to shop via the Internet/affiliate sales?
    Has the The Pew Internet & American Life Project performed a study on who is likely to buy over the Internet?

    I have been turned down by some "luxury vendors" (i.e. Nordstroms and Zales) so I didn't realize or count on the fact that millionaires were my target audience.

    Is it possible that a "millionaire" bought an item from one of my affiliate sites? Yes.
    Is it probable? I'm not sure.

    Who is a "millionaire?" Someone with millions of liquid cash?
    Do you include someone who is "land rich but cash poor?"
    There are instances of people who for one reason or another own land/property/real estate at incredible value but these people may or may not have the liquid cash.

    Wealthy people like (as an example) Paris Hilton did not start the financial problems that are happening in the United States. I applaud anyone who can go through a recession without feeling pain -- good for them.
    Wealthy people are not the problem but on the other hand the widespread financial problems the U.S. is about to face won't be solved just because they or anyone else pays taxes and buys consumer products.
    The link I gave to to Irish Independent [above] quoted this:
    U.S. stocks fell sharply after American Express Co warned of mounting credit-card defaults, adding to expectations of a U.S. recession.
    redtagdeals couldn't win the debate over consumer/economic theory so he resorted to an ad hominem attack against me and called me prejudiced.
    Gee, I didn't know that backing up my statement of an impending credit crunch with the fact that consumers are defaulting on American Express payments made me prejudiced.

    Donuts' original point about the possibility of marketing to a wealthier clientèle is fine for affiliates who can gain the luxury accounts with vendors such as Nordstrom, Zales, Bloomingdales, etc... does Neiman Marcus have an affiliate program?

    Even if a few millionaires decide to grace my sites with their presence, affiliate marketing will be rough for many affiliates due to the credit crunch -- and that is my main point. Millionaires have always existed through time -- even in Biblical times -- but their spending doesn't always trickle down -- I'm not saying it should: I'm just saying be aware of the fact that the worst financial problems are not quite over yet.
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 12th, 2008 at 09:13 PM.
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  25. #25
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    If you are trying to win a debate when none existed, so be it. If all you said was "I'm just saying be aware of the fact that the worst financial problems are not quite over yet", there is no debate here with me. In fact, I said early on that "that the economy is headed for tougher times" right before your opened your cannon.

    If it makes you feel happy - go ahead and declare a win on "whatever debate" you thought you had in your mind. It does not pinch me a bit .. Go and celebrate with a big party and at least that might help someone where you live

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