Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2006
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    4,731
    Post More Prius were sold in 2007 than Ford Explorer
    Wind of change...

    Americans bought more Toyota Prius hybrid petrol-electric hatchbacks last year than Ford Explorer sports utility vehicles, the top-selling SUV for more than a decade.

    The change of fortune, buried in US vehicle sales data for 2007 and unthinkable a few years ago, will find an echo at this year's Detroit auto show, which starts on Sunday.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7326f764-b...0779fd2ac.html

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    Good.

    That's all I can really say about it... good.

  3. #3
    Full Member Code Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 11th, 2007
    Posts
    337
    I wonder..
    I wonder if a serial killer that has only killed 3 people can feel good about himself b/c he hasn't killed 10+ like other serial killers...

    I wonder if a person using an internal combustion engine can feel good about themselves b/c they get more than 20 mpg like some other internal combustion engines get.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    I don't know about anyone else, but my self esteem isn't measured in mpg

    The old way is fading out, but until everyone has an affordable alternative to what they're currently driving, I don't feel it's fair to judge them. My parents are good people, they bought a car a several years ago that wasn't a hybrid because although they were available, hybrids were prohibitively expensive at that time. Does that make them bad people?

  5. #5
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    I wonder if a serial killer that has only killed 3 people can feel good about himself b/c he hasn't killed 10+ like other serial killers...

    I wonder if a person using an internal combustion engine can feel good about themselves b/c they get more than 20 mpg like some other internal combustion engines get.
    At least as good as someone can feel by posting something like THAT...

    While sitting typing at an electricity-eating box full of toxins, and reading the responses on another box full of toxins that's connected to the first box, (or, alternately, a combo unit that puts all the toxic components into one structure which will fit on a lap), all while enjoying the climate control appropriate to the area (furnace or AC).

    Extra points if anything in the person's livelihood includes any activity which helps support the existence of data centers, which themselves eat huge amounts of electricity, most of which is generated in some environmentally-unfriendly way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Ewe
    Wind of change...

    Americans bought more Toyota Prius hybrid petrol-electric hatchbacks last year than Ford Explorer sports utility vehicles, the top-selling SUV for more than a decade.
    I'm surprised. I wonder if it would have done nearly as well if the price of gas hadn't soared in 2007?

    I like the idea of hybrid cars, but before I'll really be interested, they'll have to make some that are a decent size. I hate tin cans, and for the few miles/year I actually drive, I'm not going to be in one. I don't want an SUV, but I don't want to feel like I'm in some oversized pop can either!
    Last edited by Leader; January 12th, 2008 at 05:00 AM.

  6. #6
    Roll Tide mobilebadboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    1,220
    That's what we need. Even more god-awful, ugly-freakin cars on the road.

    I'll keep my gas guzzler.

    Shawn Kerr (.com) | Disney World | SEC Football

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Lanadili's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 23rd, 2007
    Location
    Shreveport, LA
    Posts
    1,114
    Having a car that can get 48mpg is very appealing to most people, even before the gas prices went up. Of course most of these cars look like a tin box driving down the road, lol. Although the Prius is actually not bad looking, and I even looked at it when I bought my Camry a few years ago, but it was still new and I had already made my choice with the Camry for it's reliability and safety features. But now looking back, 48mpg looks alot better than the 21mpg I get now...and both cars cost about the same.

    My roommate actually loves the way the Prius looks, and will probably buy one in the next few years (unless they come out with something better).

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    744
    I just bought a Prius, and I love it! I've wanted one for several years - I'm just bummed that I missed out on the tax credit.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    57
    I agree with Leader. I don't want to drive a dinky car no matter what mpg it gets. Most of them I cannot fit in comfortably anyway without laying down the seat. My friends and I refer to them as "coffins on wheels". If one of those "glorified golf carts" hit an SUV or big truck, who is more likely to walk away from that battle?

    Until they can make a large vehicle (truck) that can get 40 or 50 mpg, I am not going to get excited about hybrids. They work for some people...good for them.

    Have a good day,

    GrainFarmer

  10. #10
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2006
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    4,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    I'm surprised. I wonder if it would have done nearly as well if the price of gas hadn't soared in 2007?
    I think it did to a certain extend but sales for the explorer has not been that strong since 2000 with more competition from foreign manufacturers.

    One year ago, price per barrel was $50, now, it is almost $100. 100% increase in price.

    Source: http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html

  11. #11
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 16th, 2005
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    374
    I just looked at the new Explorers. The good news is that the sticker price is about the same as the when I bought my 1997 Explorer (yeah, I was surprised). The bad news is that the estimated gas mileage was also the same (14 city/21 highway). I'll probably never buy another Explorer.

    I do not understand why American car manufacturers just do not get it, but I can understand why their sales are tanking. I'm looking at Hondas and Toyotas.
    There's good, fast and cheap. Pick any two.
    [url=http://www.topranksolutions.com]Phoenix SEO[/url] :: [url=http://www.tech-evangelist.com/category/affiliate-marketing/]Affiliate Marketing Tutorials[/url]

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,054
    [QUOTE=HecticDMC]I don't know about anyone else, but my self esteem isn't measured in mpg

    MPG isn't everything. Lifestyle factors can make a huge difference. You must figure the total amount of fuel you are burning up.

    I work at home and burned 167 gallons of gas in my 24 mpg GMC Jimmy last year. That's 4000 miles at an annual cost of $501.

    My wife commutes to work and burned 514 gallons of gas in her 35 mpg Chevy Cavalier at a total cost of $1543.

    Your driving style greatly affects the MPG you're getting. The MPG figures we like to compare are for new cars. But, the car won't stay new forever. It begins to get less efficient as soon as you drive it off the car lot. If you drive like a bat out of hell, like most do these days, the MPG is going way down and you'll be replacing that car a lot sooner.

    A lot also depends on how you care for your car. Regular oil changes, tune-ups, consistant tire pressure are just a few factors that effect the MPG you're getting. Take care of your car and it will last much longer thus saving you money on repairs or replacement. Drive it with fuel efficiency in mind and you can make a gas guzzler out perform any of these new gimmics in the long term. When comparing vehicles remember to consider the overall life-of-the-vehicle cost.
    ~Ernie

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    Okaaaaay.... that wasn't really the point I was going for, but let's talk about that What are you defining as a "gimmick"? Hybrids? I guarantee, my Ford Escape hybrid does, and always will, get better performance and mpg, and will have less impact on the environment as a whole, than a Hummer. That's pretty darned indisputable. And I don't have to take out a second mortgage to fill the tank, either
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Even if I had a Hummer it probably wouldn't bother the environment much beyond the fact that it'd cast shade over part of the driveway.

    For it to have more of an effect, I'd have to actually go OUT

    That's only a little jokey, actually. I see what Ernie's main point is...the mostly-undriven "gas guzzler" is going to be more environmentally-friendly at the bottom line than the new car that's driven a lot, just because of the differences in usage rates.

    Sure, mile-for-mile, the eco-friendly carlet outperforms, but the big guz isn't being driven many miles per year, at least, not when it's owned by a webmaster. I put about 5k miles/year on mine, and it'd be a lot less if I didn't drive to FL and back for vacation.

    On another note, those Priuses are so tiny I probably couldn't drive 'em. My mother had a Renault LeCar when I was 16, and she tried to teach me to drive a stick using it--and I couldn't even close the door *and* work the pedals because my leg was sticking out! Literally! The only way I could get both legs in is if I jammed my feet to the floor (this was with the seat all the way back) and even then they were uncomfortably bent at the knees and I couldn't have pulled them back any further...no possible way for me to actually drive it!

    Despite my dislike of small vehicles on the whole, there is one that keeps catching my attention: The Scion XB, believe it or not! All I can see when I see one of these things is "My First Company Truck." They've got a commercial look that comes across more like a "true" company vehicle than a car can manage. And they seem to have as much space as the "toy size" class of pickup. Too bad they are actually cheapo...only $17k MSRP for the config I picked out...makes me wonder how long one would really last if I dared to actually USE it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prius's site's safety page, list of safety features
    Hood hold-down hooks
    LOL...
    Brings back memories of the Chevette that came after that LeCar, and a hood detaching and flying over the roof one night after one of its hinges had rusted out... guess some car designer had a similar experience and doesn't want it happening to THEIR little car!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Lanadili's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 23rd, 2007
    Location
    Shreveport, LA
    Posts
    1,114
    Everyone keeps referring to the Prius as being a little car, which it's not, and I have some specs from both the Toyota site and the Ford Explorer site to prove it:

    Toyota Prius Interior:
    Head Room - 39.1 front/37.3 rear
    Shoulder Room - 55 front/52.9 rear
    Hip Room- 51.0 front/51.6 rear
    Leg Room - 41.9 front/38.6 rear

    Ford Explorer SUV Interior:
    Head Room - 39.8 1st row/38.7 second row
    Shoulder Room - 59 1st row/58.9 second row
    Hip Room - 55.4 1st row/55.5 second row
    Leg Room - 42.4 1st row/36.9 second row

    As you can see from the specs, it's not that much of a difference. In fact it has more leg room than my Toyota Camry. Add on top of that, it looks pretty good and gets great gas milage, no wonder it beat out the Ford Explorer in sales.

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    You guys are all so twisted. The Prius really isn't that good for the environment, but it's got the "green" label, so let's ignore that stuff right. Judging people (especially your own parents) as "bad" because they don't buy into the hype and untruths says more about you that about truck buyers. And the Prius didn't beat out the Ford Explorer, competition from other truck manufacturers did - comparing the specs and equating a Prius to an Explorer is more political whackiness than I can stomach without speaking up.

    "I guarantee, my Ford Escape hybrid does, and always will, get better performance and mpg, and will have less impact on the environment as a whole, than a Hummer. That's pretty darned indisputable."
    Which part are you saying is indisputable, the performance/mpg or the environmental impact?

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    Without going back to check, I *think* that I was the only one who brought up parents in some fashion. I wasn't saying mine are bad people; far from it. I mentioned that they bought a car that wasn't a hybrid, then asked - rhetorically - if the previous poster would consider them bad people in the context of the thread... personally, I don't. Hybrid cars aren't going to save the human race, find a cure for cancer, or create peace in the middle east. But I do think they're pretty useful and a step in the right direction - the direction of less dependence on fossil fuels.

    Performance and environmental impact regarding a Ford Escape and a Hummer - I'm no expert, but I'd say the Escape wins in both categories all other things being equal.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Lanadili's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 23rd, 2007
    Location
    Shreveport, LA
    Posts
    1,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    And the Prius didn't beat out the Ford Explorer, competition from other truck manufacturers did
    Ok let me rephrase that then...More people bought a Prius in 2007 than a Ford Explorer SUV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    comparing the specs and equating a Prius to an Explorer is more political whackiness than I can stomach without speaking up.
    The only specs I compared was the interior dimensions because alot of people kept referring to the Prius as a very small car.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,205
    If your hybrid's battery pack need replacing, get ready to pony up some bills. They are not inexpensive.
    Dr. Strangeweb, or how I learned how to stop worrying about SERPS and love the WOM.

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanadili
    Everyone keeps referring to the Prius as being a little car, which it's not, and I have some specs from both the Toyota site and the Ford Explorer site to prove it:

    Toyota Prius Interior:
    Head Room - 39.1 front/37.3 rear
    Shoulder Room - 55 front/52.9 rear
    Hip Room- 51.0 front/51.6 rear
    Leg Room - 41.9 front/38.6 rear

    Ford Explorer SUV Interior:
    Head Room - 39.8 1st row/38.7 second row
    Shoulder Room - 59 1st row/58.9 second row
    Hip Room - 55.4 1st row/55.5 second row
    Leg Room - 42.4 1st row/36.9 second row

    As you can see from the specs, it's not that much of a difference. In fact it has more leg room than my Toyota Camry. Add on top of that, it looks pretty good and gets great gas milage, no wonder it beat out the Ford Explorer in sales.
    Okay, time to compare the size of the Prius with the car I've got: The Mercury Grand Marquis! (Mine's a 2002, the Merc site, of course, has specs for the 2008.)

    Checking MercuryVehicles.com's handy-dandy comparison page--the Prius is a LOT bigger than I expected, considering its eco-reputation. I never expected it to come anywhere near being a real CAR! I don't think I've seen too many of them on the roads here, but then maybe I just haven't been looking for the right things.

    But even so, when you get to the width of the thing, it becomes a "not quite arrived" size after all...

    The formatting on the chart kind of sux, but...
    First number=Mercury Gr. Marq. Second number=the midlevel-options Prius:

    Front Head Room (in.) 39.5 39.1
    Second Row Head Room (in.) 37.8 37.1
    Front Leg Room (in.) 41.6 41.9
    Second Row Leg Room (in.) 38.0 38.6
    Front Shoulder Room (in.) 60.6 55.0
    Second Row Shoulder Room (in.) 60.0 52.9
    Front Hip Room (in.) 58.0 51.0
    Second Row Hip Room (in.) 58.7 51.6
    Length (in.) 211.1 175.0 (gotta have that mega trunk space!)
    Width (in.) 78.3 67.9
    Height (in.) 56.3 58.7

    I bolded the relevant width figures (and the length). Granted, the interloper is a tad taller, but pretty much any car is tall enough for me to be comfortable once I've gotten inside.
    Last edited by Leader; January 14th, 2008 at 02:26 PM.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    57
    We are getting taller and unfortunately wider as a human race here in the US. But the cars are getting smaller. All I am saying is make the bigger vehicles more efficient without sacraficing comfort and room. In the meantime, I am not going to feel a bit guilty driving my trucks.

    I do more for the environment than 90% of the population, and probably everyone telling you to live "greener" and reduce your "carbon footprint." I am a practicing "environmentalist"...I am a farmer. In fact, I can sell carbon credits to big companies to offset their pollution. Personally, I don't give a crap about CO2 emmissions, my corn and soybean crops need it to make oxygen( 2nd grade science class Photosynthesis) The next thing you know, it will be illegal to breathe because we are spewing too much CO2 when we exhale. The lack of common sense in this whole "greenhouse gas" issue is overwhelming. One big volcano eruption can do more harm to the environment than we as humans have burning fuels since the beginning of time.

    Also, the afore-mentioned corn and soybean crops I grow can be converted into ethanol and biodiesel.

    Sorry for the rant, I guess I have seen Al Gore on TV one too many times.

    Have a good day,

    GrainFarmer

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    The interesting thing about the whole greenhouse gases thing and global warming and whatnot, is that if anyone thinks back a bit, people had the same reaction to the 'hole in the ozone layer' extravaganza from years back.

    Turns out it was true.

    Now, I'm not saying some people aren't overreacting to the "climate crisis", but it does seem to me that a good number of people are 'underreacting' to it.

    These comments are not directed at anyone posting in this thread.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,205
    I like to think that dinosaurs also exhaled co2. I like to think a majority of them were plant eaters. They starved their environment of oxygen by eating the supplies of it. There is evidence in the fossil record of great deserts at the end of their reign, followed by rainforests that stretch from pole to pole while our four-footed ancestors foraged for fruit and nuts along those rainforest floors.

    There were no SUVs back then.

    I see a repeat of history.

    The only way to reverse climate change is to enact a policy of global population control.
    Dr. Strangeweb, or how I learned how to stop worrying about SERPS and love the WOM.

  24. #24
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    Hybrid cars aren't going to save the human race, find a cure for cancer, or create peace in the middle east. But I do think they're pretty useful and a step in the right direction - the direction of less dependence on fossil fuels.
    As is often the case, when I read things more closely, I find people aren't as nutty as I believe at first blush. Thanks for not over responding, as I had done with you.

    Hybrids are of course useful and less dependence is a good move for a littany of very valid reasons. I imagined, more than was the case, that the thought train was equating morals and mpg, if things were affordable - and I was thinking that leads to buying Mom and Dad some good sandals, not a hybrid vehicle. Thanks for clarifying and for being patient with me and my earlier reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    Performance and environmental impact regarding a Ford Escape and a Hummer - I'm no expert, but I'd say the Escape wins in both categories all other things being equal.
    For me, performance is conditional and relative - which engine, what conditions, what use, where, for how long, etc. The hybrid likely does get better gas mileage overall, no argument there. But if towing a boat, things are very different for performance and certainly safety as well. Even under normal (non-towing) conditions, the acceleration (which is one aspect of performance) of the 2008 Hummer H1 Alpha (Hummer says the Alpha can accelerate from zero to 60 mph in about 8 seconds) outdoes the Escape Hybrid. So I don't think we can broadly say the performance of an Escape Hybrid outdoes a Hummer.

    Personally, I think Hummer's are obnoxious looking, hideously large beasts that are most often seen on the street with one driver (not towing anything) and they're horribly inefficient (many non-hybrid models destroy them in lifetime impact calculations) - but that's doesn't mean they don't outperform for some people who use them differently than my steroetype implies. It also doesn't mean those drivers are "bad" people.

    As far as environmental impact, there's a new approach some say has the most validity of true environmental impact - it's referred to as the dust-to-dust approach, looking at all the energy used in a car's life, not just it's mileage during one increment during it's life. Considering the energy and pollution from birth to death and beyond (meaning recycling or destruction or burial or whatever it's outcome will be) reveals more about the total impact - which is what environmentalists (and myself) are concerned with.

    To that end, people have been studying the full picture, dust-to-dust, and the findings are very interesting.

    Further reading:
    http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060719.shtml
    http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

    In 2005 models, for example, the figures show that just looking at lifetime dust-to-dust energy costs per mile (so as to measure efficiency), the Escape Hybrid shows less total environmental impact than the Hummer H1, but the H2 was better than either of them.

    In addition, there are other concerns besides total energy efficiency, like pollutants from battery components and their manufacturing process and their life's end processes that are being ignored here, likely making the Escape Hybrid worse than either Hummer models.

    So I'd say I agree with the direction of things, but we haven't moved as far as it may seem from the marketing hype being done. We'll get there, but today, your Escape Hybrid purchase didn't do much to change your impact on the environment. However, one very positive thing it did do, is send a message - a message to car manufacturers that these things matter to you. That message my friend, is the gift you've bestowed on the earth - you're helping motivate car makers to change - that's the only indisputable fact I see here.

    And for doing that, I thank you. If people do nothing and express no preference, nothing will ever change.

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    At the risk of sounding mushy, you're one of my favorite people around here, Donuts - it would take a lot to make me change my opinion of you - and I don't think you overreacted that much. I've heard worse... much worse

    For my part, I did oversimplify when comparing the Escape Hybrid to a Hummer - because for some reason, I always think of the first generation Hummer when I have conversations like this. I forget that they're two generations removed from that now, and there's been massive changes in that vehicle. Still - not the most fuel efficient thing on the road. I've not heard much about the "dust to dust" way of measuring these things, but I'm inspired to learn more about it - and so for that, I thank you.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  26. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Ford or Chevy?
    By IOWNIE in forum Virtual Family and Off-Topic
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: February 13th, 2008, 11:02 PM
  2. Replies: 30
    Last Post: September 8th, 2007, 11:16 AM
  3. Affiliate Summit 2007 East Hotel Nearly Sold Out!
    By AffiliateSummitMissy in forum Events and Gatherings
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 15th, 2007, 11:35 AM
  4. Hi fellow Ford enthusiasts
    By Swansoke in forum Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 9th, 2003, 11:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •