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  1. #1
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    Performics positive/negative?
    Now that Google has aquired Performics, I assume that they will become a 500 pound gorrilla.

    They have been getting some great merchants lately so I've been paying more attention to them.

    What are the pros & cons with using Performics.




    PS: I posted here to get more unbiased opinions than posting in the Performics forum.

  2. #2
    Shimmy Shimmy Bang Bang shimmy's Avatar
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    The only pro is they are the only network that emails you an excel file of the new deals from their merchants. That excel file is great.

  3. #3
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    Like all networks they have their good points and things they can work on.

    For many years, they were set up to be the program managers for each merchants. Recently they set up access to their platform without program managments, so OPM (for example) could run their programs on the PF platform. Thats one of the reasons that they are adding lots of merchants. They have some great retail names, if your site has an apparel or home and garden focus, the merchants are great. And there are many others. Tracking is good. A lot of improvements are being made to reporting (very needed).

    We currently work with over 100 merchants, and happy with them, and adding more all the time to our sites.

  4. #4
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    PS: I posted here to get more unbiased opinions than posting in the Performics forum.
    Hehehe, well... your goal might have failed with me. I'm biased, as I suppose anyone with an opinion is.

    I don't like their lax "enforcement" (if that's even the right word) of bad acting "affiliates" (using that term loosely as well) that use adware to steal credit for orders.

    But I also think nearly the same about CJ and LinkShare, though I personally think PFX is a tad worse. But I'm fairly different on this subject than most people here I think, so take it with a grain or two of salt.

    So grab that search function and go surfing through ABW, you'll find lots of positive and negative comments here about them - but know that in the end, you'll likely need to try them out and learn the truth of things for yourself.

    There are some things that can be stamped as bad and to always avoid, on those, people here will chime in and freely tell you that you're making a mistake - this ain't one of those times. Have fun experimenting there!

  5. #5
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    I really thought they were one of the best run networks as far as support and communications go. Their staff were most helpful and they worked with me on several ways to improve their network and also to help me on certain requests. But sadly that is no longer the case, all l that changed late last year & just recently I had a terrible time with this company, it was like all the good people left and now it is run by people who don't have a clue and don't want to help or communicate. I had to send them emails for weeks which they completely ignored, I ended up having to contact someone through this forum to get any help and even then it was not helpful at all. I was even doing quite well with them and I complained about not been paid on time, since then I have not had any sales there which is really strange and even my website that made most of their sales just suddenly lost all the traffic for their merchants but other merchants from other networks done ok. I was making quite a few sales a day for various merchants and it could be a coincidence or they could have worked with G and pulled all links to my website because I complained. I know it sounds strange but jumping from all these sales a day to zero overnight just is too weird for me. It hasn't affected my business at all, thats why not depending on any one network is crucial.
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  6. #6
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    "But I'm fairly different..."

    So true !

  7. #7
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    Personally, I have "attempted" to work with Performics twice in the past couple of years. Each time, I was promptly approved into their network, and approved by a number of merchants -- but then I found that Performics is not a company I could work with.

    The first time, in 2005, Performics had a very cumbersome process to access datafeeds (they insisted that each affiliate set up an FTP site on the affiliate's own server where Performics could upload the datafeeds). After some failed attempts, I concluded that it just wasn't worth the effort.

    The second time, this past autumn, I had a really strong incentive to make a relationship with Performics work: a large merchant was moving from Kowabunga to open programs at both Performics and CJ. This was an important relationship, earning me about $15,000 in affiliate commissions the prior season (2006-2007). Since I won't work with CJ, I decided to "try again" to make a relationship with Performics work.

    What I got was incompetent service. First, I was told that my merchant would not have a datafeed available, although that wasn't true. Then, after the merchant sought to rescue our relationship, I received an insincere apology and then marginally-hostile follow-up from Performics' staff.

    After a few more exchanges, I concluded that although they approved me each time as an affiliate, Performics really did not want me in their network.

    Ultimately, I ended my relationship with the large merchant, abandoning this lucrative opportunity for the 20007-2008 season. (My wife wasn't happy about losing that income.)

    Since I haven't actually worked with Performics, I can't offer any feedback about their ethics or competence, but I certainly respect the opinions offered by Donuts and 'glinted' in their posts above.

    Added: Below, MichaelColey wrote that after recent changes, he thinks that Performics is "pretty much in line with CJ and LinkShare," which I think he intends as a weak compliment. As folks know, I won't work with CJ or LS because of their incompetent and unethical practices, so I view this comparison as quite a bit more negative than Michael probably intended.
    Last edited by markwelch; January 15th, 2008 at 11:25 AM.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador IOWNIE's Avatar
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    Although the Orange Links via email is a nice feature, I find their overall company......well......annoying. I can't be specific....just a number of minor hassles along the way have left me NOT wanting to make the effort to use and promote their merchants. Too many other better choices out there than to struggle to make things work.

  9. #9
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Some pluses:

    Their development cycle is considerably faster than LinkShare or CJ (although nowhere near as fast as SAS).

    They've made tremendous improvements in listening to affiliates over the past few years. (Three years ago, they would have qualified as my least favorite major network primarily because they didn't seem to care what affiliates wanted. Now, they're pretty much in line with CJ and LinkShare --but behind SAS-- in my view.)

    They have very well known, large merchants. If you're looking for brand recognition, they have a higher concentration of those big merchants than any other network. LinkShare would probably be second and CJ third. Of course with those large merchants often come corporate mindsets, affiliate-unfriendly policies, ignorance about parasites, etc. But for many affiliate business models, the brand recognition is a necessity and more than makes up for those negatives.

    They have a nice convention. They usually have good keynote speakers. Their party at the Shedd Aquarium last year was the best industry party I've ever been to.

    They have some great people.
    Michael Coley
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  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager Howard Gottlieb's Avatar
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    If you depend on getting up to date automated transaction data you will be dissapointed.

    Love their merchants but get very frustrated with the above.
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die
    to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there
    isn't and die to find out there is.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skishore2006
    Recently they set up access to their platform without program managments, so OPM (for example) could run their programs on the PF platform.
    Just contacted their NY office, they charge $1,000 to join as non managed merchant.
    They are calling back tomorrow with their whole sales pitch, sounds interesting.

    With G behind them a lot may develop??
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  12. #12
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    I don't know anything about their datafeeds since I mainly use text links and some banners and have up about 75% of the available merchants, so that's the perspective this is coming from:

    Positives -
    A lot of well known merchants, big brands.
    Real time reporting.
    The least amount of downtime compared to the other networks. They had a recent incident in December which wasn't good but if you search the forums over the years, you'll find that they're really good in that department.
    Love the Orange Links and some other improvements they've had.

    Negatives -
    I've never liked a go between between affiliate and merchant. Having said that, I've always gotten good responses from them and they did recently open it up so that merchants can use OPM and such.

    This is a minor annoyance to me but they need to fix where they put their deactivated/terminated merchants. There's really no rhyme or reason to it, I've posted about that a few times in their forum.

    As far as working with them, you posted one of the most important reasons:

    "They have been getting some great merchants lately"

    That's it. If you feel there are great merchants there or any other place, you should try them out. A good merchant could be at Performics, CJ, SAS, Linkshare etc, but from a shoppers perspective, they don't know, don't care, have any idea about affiliate networks and such. Has nothing to do with why they shop with a merchant, the affiliate network they're on.

  13. #13
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    As an affiliate manager they have been a pleasure to work with and I can launch a program faster than other networks. Its great to have contact all the way up the company tree and they always seek me out at the summit. We have three programs there and launching another this week. Their interface could use some love but it works fast along with their data recording. They have listened and added several recommendations that I offered. To my knowledge they are the only Top 3 network to offer agency agreements and have proactively solicited our business. Their pricing has been very competitive.

    From an affiliate perspective the relationship is with the OPM (me) so there is no communication bottleneck. We pay our invoices on time so no delays in affiliate commissions.

  14. #14
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    I had a few issues with them a few years ago as an OPM in how they handled newsletters, but now I see they're changing for OPM friendlyness, which is very cool move.


  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    How do folks here feel about their performance in this report?
    http://www.affiliatefairplay.com/con...act_study.html

    And how about this one?
    http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/im...g-may07/1.html

    For me, knowing their size relative to others in these reports and seeing how prevalent adware is used here in comparison (to steal commissions from the merchants and their other affiliates who don't use adware), means there's a very extensive use of adware going on here.

    I wish I could say I'm quite surprised to hear as many positives as I do, but it's par for the course. I should just go ahead and get my pet parrot soon and complete my transformation to an ignored, apparently-babbling malcontent. :-)

  16. #16
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    "I wish I could say I'm quite surprised to hear as many positives as I do, but it's par for the course."

    Maybe because they're actually in the network and you're not? Of course people don't like parasites. Big brands got big for a reason, people shop there. I have Target (at Performics) on my site because people like to shop there. Same with the other merchants who have their program thru Performics. It's really that simple. What surprises me is how often that is left out of the conversation. Shoppers and where they like to spend their money.

    And no offense to Mark but: "Since I haven't actually worked with Performics,"

    Actually working in a network might help to know how a network is, IMO.

  17. #17
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Yes, we know Trust, you can't make any ethical judgements because you've convinced yourself that you must work with everyone. I understand your position, it's common and it's fine with me. But if you'd like to argue or debate something substantial or meaningful, besides your obvious defense mechanisms, since you insist Mark and I are somehow incapable of knowing something secret there... please tell me what knowledge I would learn by working with them that I don't already have?

  18. #18
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    I just did. Shoppers like shopping at the merchants there. Not sure why that is hard to grasp.

    And then actually working with merchants there, you would know how the network actually runs. Parasites are just one issue, not the only one. An issue that hasn't stopped you at working with other networks/merchants that have them.

  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Donuts, a merchant has the option to manually approve the affiliates, so its up to them to deny the known parasite sites.

    I'm going guess that Chuck H hits the "deny" button often!

    I will say this; the rep I spoke to immediately mentioned the loyalty sites and how much biz they could send our way.

    I replied "are you familiar with ABW?" there was no need for her to discuss that issue further with me.

    Had it not been for Google's involvement I probably wouldn't be talking with them.
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  20. #20
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    which loyalty sites? There are many, and work in different ways, with different business models. do you automatically say no to all loyalty sites? Many do bring in lots of shoppers, and have high conversion rates, which is why merchants like them. Again, there are many different ways they work.

  21. #21
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    Donuts, since you don't work with Ls Cj or Pfx I asume you work with Sas.

    I know their reputation is not to permit any parasite type affiliates which is great, but can you place your business all in one basket?

    so if Sas went out of business you would also close yours?

    Are you saying that every merchant in Pfx has parasites?

    I wanted to add several merchants that are in that network, you're suggesting that I should stay away.

    Others here are using multiple networks and earning a living, I intend to try them out.

    Question, are the parasite sites all listed in the parasite forum here or are there others.

    Anyone have a complete list of these bad boys?

  22. #22
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    I just did.
    So I have to work with Performics to learn that consumers like the merchants there, is that it? That's the key thing I'd learn by working there? And I can't figure that out without working there? Of course consumers love / like / use / visit / buy from their merchant's stores. You say I have a hard time grasping that and that I need to join PFX to "get" it?

    You've said that you need to work everywhere, to please your site's visitors and maximize the reach and competitiveness of your coupon site. I don't disagree. In fact, I don't disagree much at all with what I know of your ethics either. I don't view anything you've described that you do as unethical, in fact, I view it very much the same as my own behavior.

    Where we do disagree is this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    Of course people don't like parasites.
    I say it's very obvious that Performics ain't one of those people.

    Or would you like to assert that PFX is incapable of identifying or acting to stop them?

    Some people do like parasites, they benefit from them.

    And against the worst offenders, I draw a line. It happens to be a different from your line, but I'd say, not by very much.

    Where we differ is that you refuse to call a spade, a spade. You refuse to acknowledge that PFX is among the worst, if not the worst, offending major networks regarding adware. You do this because you feel uncomfortable working with them and calling them unethical regarding adware at the same time. Instead, you're trying to point out where others work or don't - that's irrelevant to PFX's behavior - and it changes the discussion from their behavior to other's choices and ethical minutae.

    I say you're working with them is not a conflict or ethical issue and there's no need for you to be defensive about it. To claim I need to learn more about how their network runs, is a childish argument.

    You would better serve your own business, our community's needs and your responsibility as a Moderator here, by dropping the defensive posture (because it's completely unnecessary!) and speaking truthfully and openly about their adware behavior.

  23. #23
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    Donuts, since you don't work with Ls Cj or Pfx I asume you work with Sas.

    I know their reputation is not to permit any parasite type affiliates which is great, but can you place your business all in one basket?

    so if Sas went out of business you would also close yours?
    No, I don't just work with SAS.

    For me, and anyone else, I feel it would be unwise and very risky to work with just one network. I don't recommend that for anyone. Nor do I demand that others follow my lines drawn, I encouraged the person here who asked, to experiment with PFX, try to keep that in mind.

    Personally, I can afford to draw stricter lines, and while I think it helps shape the landscape a teeny bit, that's not why I make the choices that I do - I do it because my own gut tells me where to draw my lines and boundaries.

    No, if SAS evaporated tomorrow, I would easily survive and thrive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    Are you saying that every merchant in Pfx has parasites?
    Nope, that's impossible to monitor or know.

    The truth is, all networks have them, including SAS. The difference is, SAS has policies against them and proactively polices against them. They sneak in, get caught, and get booted fairly quickly. This situation is at the opposite end of the adware prevalence spectrum from Performics.

    And, while PFX has been shown to be there, that doesn't mean you can't make money there. Nor does it mean you shouldn't work there if you need to or even if you want to. But you should be aware of the truth of what's going on there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    I wanted to add several merchants that are in that network, you're suggesting that I should stay away.
    Again, that's not what I told this person who asked, is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    Others here are using multiple networks and earning a living, I intend to try them out.
    Good for you, that's a wise strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan367
    Question, are the parasite sites all listed in the parasite forum here or are there others.

    Anyone have a complete list of these bad boys?
    There's no master list and once you understand adware (see my sig line below), you'll understand that many can tap into unethical adware behavior, so there never will be a list - it's too extensive and ever-changing to publish a list. But networks have the ability to aggregate clickstream data and identify the bahavior patterns of bad acting affiliates and root them out - but they do need to chose to do so, it doesn' happen magically because you claim your network is parasite free or because you claim to have a QC dept.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador IOWNIE's Avatar
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    Now THATS calling a spade a spade!

  25. #25
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Some affiliate business models (like PPC) are great if you want to work with (or avoid) specific networks. Other affiliate business models (like coupon sites and price comparison sites) have to go where the merchants are (i.e. everywhere). That's just the way it is.

    Let's get back on topic here.
    Michael Coley
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

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