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  1. #1
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Orwell's Big Brother will be watching you
    I'm a news junkie -- I love to watch the news (just about) anytime I turn on the television -- I also like newspapers & magazines -- plus I read news stories on the web.

    This evening I was watching a discussion on the the (24 hr.) news channel of (American)government monitoring & surveillance of all e-mails and all actions performed by users on the Internet.
    Did anyone else see that? I wish I had the transcript ... thus I did a search and found an article by The TIMESONLINE (London).

    The TIMESONLINE (London) has an interesting story that reminds me of the song by The Police "Every Breath You Take:"

    How computer spy in the office will monitor everything you do

    Although the title mentions the office, the surveillance will branch out to personal interests.
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  2. #2
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Do they include "rover" with this system? http://www.tvacres.com/weapons_rover.htm
    This World is Not My Home
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  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador IOWNIE's Avatar
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    I'd love to respond to this but rules state NO POLITICAL discussions allowed - and yes this topic is ALL ABOUT politics.
    Wish we could elaborate as this would be a GREAT topic!

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Although the title mentions the office, the surveillance will branch out to personal interests.
    Only if I (we) let it. If we don't install the software and don't use the computers that have this hardware (that supposedly recognizes heart rate and facial expressions) then there's nothing to worry about. As for the tracking of email, we've been under that threat since email was invented. In the workplace, where people have to use computers supplied by their companies, it's a "use it or be fired" situation - perhaps. But if enough people quit their jobs over it (and people would), companies would back off from using that technology.

    I refuse to believe that people go along with whatever nonsense that the government or industry tries to force on them. Some will, but historically, things like this are doomed to failure.

    And no, I don't think this is a political discussion anymore than talking about whether the FTC should get involved with internet advertising is a political discussion. This is a government, industry and technology issue. It's got nothing to do with which political party is in office.
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  5. #5
    http and a telephoto
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    Agree with Daniel, this is not a political discussion at all. It's all about corporations and how they choose to monitor their employees.

    Email is insecure, always has been.
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  6. #6
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    The television show mentioned "the government" without addressing any specific political party.

    It's pretty easy to track someone given all the cameras in banks and retail stores plus RFID chips are placed in tires so one person's movements are easy to track.

    Heck, I've looked for some of my sites in search engines and there are Google maps to my place

    I'm a fan of Orwell so any Orwellian topic will be of interest
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  7. #7
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    But if enough people quit their jobs over it (and people would), companies would back off from using that technology.
    If "good jobs" were at stake, are people really going to quit over technological surveillance?

    What about Red Camera lights? Have you seen them? You don't think the government [regardless of the controlling political party -- they're all alike ]
    doesn't know where you are and what your daily habits are?

    Btw, I find Database Nation (author's main page) interesting -- surveillance is more than just the workforce.

    Database Nation will make its readers feel like trapped rats in a maze.
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 16th, 2008 at 03:04 PM.
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  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    It's pretty easy to track someone given all the cameras in banks and retail stores plus RFID chips are placed in tires so one person's movements are easy to track.
    Just follow the first three words of the old AMX slogan: "Don't leave home without it", and you might be un-trackable. :-)

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    If "good jobs" were at stake, are people really going to quit over technological surveillance?
    Absolutely, yes. Wouldn't you? I sure would. There are lots of jobs out there for people with skills... there's nothing to force anyone to accept this kind of technology.
    What about Red Camera lights? Have you seen them? You don't think the government [regardless of the controlling political party -- they're all alike ]
    doesn't know where you are and what your daily habits are?
    Sure, I've seen them - my wife got nailed by one last month, in fact. Two things though - first, not every intersection has them (in fact, the vast, vast majority in this town at least, don't) and second, I simply can't believe that the government has the resources to constantly monitor those things 24/7. Not in a way that would give them an accurate picture of any person's daily habits.

    I have a healthy mistrust of the government, as any good citizen should. But I know paranoia and conspiracy theory when I see it. I'm not saying you're paranoid, Rhia, but your points, if taken a bit further, do go in that direction.
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  10. #10
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    You got that wrong, Daniel. There's no conspiracy theory except for the fact that surveillance exists.

    One of my favorite sites is:
    The Register: Sci/Tech News for the World: Biting the hand that feeds IT
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/

    You'll find lots of witty commentary about surveillance there
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  11. #11
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    Just follow the first three words of the old AMX slogan: "Don't leave home without it", and you might be un-trackable. :-)
    You win
    Your reply was the best in this thread
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  12. #12
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    can you say Carnivore?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(FBI)

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Carnivore is an overhyped packet sniffer. It's nothing special. How many billions - trillions - of emails are sent every day around the world? Maybe I'm being naive, but I simply can't believe that the U.S. Government has the capacity to track the daily movements of it's 365 million+ citizens, not to mention all foreign communication that comes into the country, not to mention public workstations and other public means of access.
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  14. #14
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    I simply can't believe that the U.S. Government has the capacity to track the daily movements of it's 365 million+ citizens ...
    Maybe the government thinks tracking is lots of fun

    Here's something fun due to surveillance: we get to see a picture of Singer Amy Winehouse touching up her mascara at a Superdrug in West London
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/showbiz/3am/...9520-20286178/
    Wow. I'm sure glad I didn't miss out on seeing that

    Here's some more on-topic (non political) reading:

    More than half of UK employees under IT surveillance

    Generation Y and Surveillance
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  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    I could have gone my whole life without seeing that And I mistyped the population number, I was going for 305 million, not 365 million.

    But that's a celebrity being followed around by the paparazzi... that's not exactly what we've been talking about, IMO.

    I'm not saying surveillance systems aren't in place, especially in the workforce, but I severely doubt the extent to which they can and are being used. The second story has this line:

    The research says 52% of all British employees report being monitored by a computerised system that keeps a log or record of their work.

    ...which could include anything from a fingerprint reader required to unlock a workstation to having to submit an electronic report of how you spent your hours. A 'log or record of their work' is pretty innocuous, really.
    Daniel M. Clark
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  16. #16
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    that's not exactly what we've been talking about, IMO.
    The Mirror.co.uk used the word "Surveillance" if you click on this link:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/showbiz/3am/...9520-20286178/

    So if the Mirror uses the word, then that must be a valid use of the term.

    Does the article Facebook: The New Look of Surveillance inspire you to reveal all to Facebook?

    Btw, Google scans all of its gmail & it does a pretty good job with delivering on-topic ads due to to the monitoring So if Google can do it, why not any government?
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  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    I get that, but we were talking about Orwellian "big brother" government surveillance and workplace computers, not some shmucks with a Nikon working for the tabloids following around a singer
    Daniel M. Clark
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  18. #18
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    Damn, I lost. I clicked the Winehouse link. I don't feel good now.

  19. #19
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Daniel, I started this thread

    If the Mirror used the word (verbatim) "Surveillance" maybe there is a secondary message.

    This sounds like fun:

    Global Biometric Surveillance Control Grid

    "Server in the Sky" that will collate and provide an " International Information Consortium" with access to the biometric measurements and personal information of citizens of the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand ...
    Can't wait for that "Server in the Sky" -- it's not political because partisan parties are not mentioned but governments of different countries are (or alluded to) ... sounds like an interesting project for the government ... they get bored of boring ones.


    Already we know thermal imaging has been developed to the point where if the government wanted to it could figure out exactly if you were having an "intimate physical engagement" with your spouse [married couples need not worry -- we singles need to think twice about our flings ]
    Last edited by Rhia7; January 16th, 2008 at 09:59 PM.
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  20. #20
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Already we know thermal imaging has been developed to the point where if the government wanted to it could figure out exactly if you were having an "intimate physical engagement" with your spouse [married couples need not worry -- we singles need to think twice about our flings ]
    Not really!

    For a short or casual flings, any meat locker will block the thermal imaging.

    For some longer flings, we can always cover that entire room with tin-foil and never worry about any youtube video later. ;-)

  21. #21
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Mr. Sal, I was hoping this thread would inspire some romantic ideas

    The tin foil covered room sounds great

    Maybe we could use one of those silvery NASA blankets
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  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
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    Here we go again I've set up a private room for you guys - http://forum.abestweb.com/chat/

  23. #23
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Maybe we could use one of those silvery NASA blankets
    They were too expensive the last time I check.

    We can buy a few rolls of aluminum foil for the underthe covers work, and use the money we save for some other treats. :->

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    What I worry about is a govt. that 'red flags' people because some computer told them to. Link

  25. #25
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
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    I'm not concerned about Carnivore or other Fed tracking systems. It does help the Feds track and identify terrorist activities. That is what they use it for. They don't monitor personal messages. These programs look for word patterns that identify terrorist messages.

    Besides that, e-mails are not legally considered to be private because they use a public medium (the Internet), which allows anyone with the right equipment to intercept messages.

    A lawyer friend advises me to never put anything in an e-mail that I would not shout out loud in public. You would be surprised about the number of very old e-mails that people thought were deleted but nonetheless manage to show up in court cases. Many popular e-mail systems do not delete messages when you think they've been deleted.
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