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[Gordon]

This is the replies to my question from CJ. It seems the final say has been put in your court. Could you please let me know if all of your affiliates can resort to this trickery like the example shown? or is it just a select few that are allowed to do it?

If we can do it then rest assured I will be doing it as I suspect will many others here at ABW.

To be quite honest about it I think it is a cop out by CJ and a bloody disgusting one at that. If I were you I would be looking for a new Network that stood for something not one that pandered to any parasite and cheat that comes down the pike.

I thank you in advance for a prompt reply
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Discussion Thread
Response (Drew) 11/03/2004 08:54 AM
Gordon,

With issues like this, the final decision lays in the hands of the advertiser. Consequently, you will have to speak with the advertiser directly in order to get definite approval.

Thank you,
-Drew

Customer (Gordon Skevy .) 11/02/2004 09:52 PM
Your answer is mumbo-jumbo to me. Please just answer Yes or No.

If I create/build a site that does exactly the same as that site in question will it be ok?

Thanks in advance

Response (Drew) 11/02/2004 09:20 AM
Gordon,

As indicated in the previous question thread, our Network Quality team has reviewed the site in question and found it to be in compliance with our standards. I must stress that our Publisher Service Agreement and Code of Conduct still apply in their entirety, so that while this method is ostensibly allowable, your site must still conform to all the COC requirements.

I apologize for any inconvenience.
-Drew

Auto-Response (Drew) 10/31/2004 09:52 AM
Thank you for contacting Commission Junction. This is an e-mail confirmation regarding the incident you entered into our system. Incident specifics are as follows...

041031-000042
10/31/2004 09:52 AM
in reference to my previous question that was closed even though I was not satisfied with your replies.

You should expect a response regarding resolution from Commission Junction within 72 normal business hours. Further details regarding the status of this incident are available by selecting the incident via the "Contact Us" link on the upper right side of the account interface, then choose the "Go" link associated with Question Status.

Replies to this e-mail will not be processed.

Sincerely,

Client Services
Commission Junction, a ValueClick company
1501 Chapala Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
p: 800-761-1072
f: 805-560-0776

Customer (Gordon Skevy .) 10/31/2004 09:52 AM
So you are telling me it is 100% ok for me to build a site using these same methods as this guy is using to steal/divert our comissions?

I've had enough of trying to be honest I think I might as well go over to the dark side like you so obviously have and allow. Please let me know in writing ASAP that these methods are perfectly ok to use.
Thank you

http://backcountry.alloutshopping.net/thermarest_ridge_rest_deluxe_stuff_sack_-_2003_model.asp <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Gary?

[Gary-AvantLink]

Gordon,

I will be contacting this publisher today to request they change their methods of advertising on our behalf.

Gary M

[Gordon]

Thank you Gary I'm glad someone has the decency to do the correct thing but I still think you should be looking for a Network that has some ethics and principles and the guts to enforce them. To put this on your/your companies plate is nothing short of bloody disgusting. It just goes to show how low CJ will stoop to get some extra comissions in their coffers.

I myself am so bloody disgusted with them and all they stand for I'm just looking forward to the day when I get another viable option then I am out of there as fast as possible and I'm sorry to say it but all the merchants that stay with CJ can kiss my sales goodbye.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

TY Gary!

[loxly]

Good lord, CJ said that was *OK*???????

That is disgusting.

The question is, how do those pages get ranked in the first place, or does someone get ranked and then get lazy and chose to force clicks this way because they are too lazy to actually maintain a site?????

[ecomcity]

Loxly they get ranked by SEO trickery and trademark spamming. Other cookie stuffers use feeds as hidden doorway pages with auto re-directs to the merchants home page for setting cookies. The product feed is just spam food with no internal site navagation links to any of those 100,000 pages. Raw feed plus SEO and re-direct scripting tricks fool Google and Yahoo. The shopper's desire doesn't even factor into the cookie stuffers equation as they detect the Google bot and show content only to the robot...then turn back on the redirect and even hidden popunders.

The thousands of couponers and deal sites have to compete with the BHO's so they migrate to the darkside employing the "poormon's BHO" tricks. Networks get extra unearned revenue from both groups of cookie tricksters. Even SAS is included in the domain bound cookie stuffing trickery.

[Leader]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Loxly they get ranked by SEO trickery <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep-- gotta be some cloaking going on in there. G's picking up keys that humans aren't seeing.

And, there has to be some scheme going to drive PR (or PR equivalent for Yahoo) to the site, or else it would just be at Listing #10 Million.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> or does someone get ranked and then get lazy and chose to force clicks this way because they are too lazy to actually maintain a site????? ~Loxly <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt that. If someone got lazy, the site would just be ignored outright, not mutated into that! Mutating it--and getting it ranked--would = work; that's contrary to the objective.

Plus, such sites tend to get SE banned quick. So, it means *shudder* REdoing the work pretty soon! */shudder*

Those of us that appreciate the pleasures of no-work, do NOT want to have to be redoing sites all the time.

[SuZee]

Gordon,
That page all by itself looks fishy..

BUT where is it linked from?
What does the visitor have to do to get there?
Do they click on a link to BackCountry to get that page?

I really do not see anything wrong with it..
They do not redirect at all...
AND we don't know what they clicked to see that page. If they do click a link to backcountry I don't really see anything wrong with it..

I have seen a lot of people do that kind of thing.

Personally I try NOT to link directly to the Merchant I try to link to one page for that merchant from all of my sites. This way I control that traffic! AND That single page gets good PR - If the merchant starts screwing me around and/or doesn't convert I only have to change one page - not thousands of links.. and I still control that traffic.

It's Not A Pop Up
It's Not A Redirect
and you haven't seen what the visitor has to do to see that page.. ???

Not enough evidence to convict I would say..


JUST MY OPINION

[SuZee]

OOPs Silly Me!

I looked around and yep your right..

It's not at all what I do.
and it's NOT -- OK

Sorry - Go Get EM..




I too am very disgusted with CJ but for other reasons not just this incident or anything like it.. BUT what other options do we have?
LinkShave or Shave A Sale?
What other Networks are available?

[Gordon]

That page comes up in google searches for specific terms (offhand I forget what the search was) but when it comes up the text on the page makes it sound like the site (the affiliates site) has moved to a different URL so you click on the link provided, but you do not go to the affiliates site you go direct to backcountry.com thus the cookie is set. It is a very underhand way of working and is on a par with cookie stuffing in my mind.

[edited to add] Sorry suzee I overposted

[SuZee]

What about this?

[URL Removed]

AND A FREE HOST AT THAT..

Dirty Stuff - CJ Won't Do Anything About for weeks now...

Gary - Please Please Please Tell Him To Stop!
He has several pages listed all around my listings in the SE's... and it just plain sucks!

[SuZee]

OOPs SORRY AGAIN!

He Took Down The REDIRECT TO BACKCOUNTRY ALREADY..

I am not awake yet.. being very stupid..

I will go have coffee.. and shut-up now

[Leader]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> AND A FREE HOST AT THAT.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing's wrong with a free host (at least, not all of them)! I used one for years, and wouldn't have changed if they didn't start running ads for the same thing I was pushing.

[SuZee]

I am not opposed to free hosts - they serve a purpose. It is just the Banner Ads and outside links.. that is why I never use them. I make more sales without holes in my sites leading to other sites selling the same thing. That is the same reason I do not have GoogleAds up anywhere.. alot of webmasters sign-up for this to advertise their own affilaite sites. I don't want to give them my traffic for 50 cents... then THEY get the sale for $25.00 or more.. nope all OUT links are always mine.

[Gary-AvantLink]

Hey all, I will be getting in touch with the publisher SuZee points out above. Whatever he's doing...he's clearly violating our TOS by using the words 'Discount' and 'Cheap' and by not landing people on a legitimate content page that requires an additional click to reach Backcountry.com. Thank you SuZee for pointing this out.

Gary M

[TJ]

SuZee, ABW requires all members NOT to publish URL's to affiliate sites. If you have a problem with a link, you should send it directly to the merchant for review.

Thanks

[SuZee]

OOPs Again..

My Apologies

[SuZee]

Gary,
Does your TOS not allow any use of the word "DISCOUNT" other than the URL?

Because I have a whole section of my site dedicated to your DISCOUNTED SALE ITEMS..
I do use the word "Discount" because they are on sale.. is that a bad thing for me to do?

In Other Words if I have a link that says "CLICK HERE FOR DISCOUNTS AND SALES ITEMS"
and that link leads to the section of my site with nothing but items that are "ON SALE" from BC - is that not a good thing?

Thanks

[Gary-AvantLink]

SuZee,

Drop me an email and I will send you the TOS. There's a specific section on 'Promoting Sale Prices' that will clarify this for you. My email is gmarcoccia at backcountry.com.

Thanks, Gary M