[Trust]

"We are not technically showing ads on your site. If we were to advertise on your site that would be through banner ads or what not. We are presenting an offer through a users machine, which they have consented to, based on keywords that are running through their browser. There is no infringement on your site and in turn no money is owed to you."

If a user comes to my site with your software on their computer and your contextual advertising is launched, what triggered that? Keywords on my site, my copyrighted material. Do we get compensated, no. So if someone came to my site with your software and it was blank, would it launch? Answer that.

[Gordon]

Known facts about 180solutions feel free to add more.

1/. They DONT give a shit how their crap gets on your computer so long as it does.
2/. They DO make your computer wide open so they can access it at any time they wish.
3/. They WILL put anything they want to on your computer you would neither know or be forewarned about it.
4/. They DO give a load of waffle about how they need to know who put the program on your computer but this is just to deter you from removing it.
5/. Notice they will NOT give information out in public on how to remove the crap from your computer.
6/. They DO deliver popups no matter what Tommy Turdface calls them.
7/. They DO overwrite cookies.
8/. They DO give out spin about their program and totally disregard the fact that it has not basis on truth.
9/. They DO steal your customers.
10/. They DO do steal your comissions.
11/. They DO sign up with merchants under multiple names/accounts to try to get more without being too noticable.
12/. They DO double dip their own paying clients. If this is not out and out thieving (and a felony) I don't know what is.
13/. They DO operate drive by installs and have no intentions of stopping them.
14/. They DO transmit and save your personal info over the internet.

So hows about it Tommy? can you say in Honesty that any of these points above are wrong?. Before you start to type a word of advice "Cut the Crap" we are not guessing, we know what 180 is and does.

[happypoon]

The below screen shot clearly shows there are many people who believe your product is spyware.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

As Tommy seems to like baiting guys here and reeling everyone in, this thread will no doubt go around in circles and I must admit to be very amused by the responses to valid points raised by forum members. However this will no doubt go on until 180 feel they have a water-tight case to any questions potential clients or affiliates may ask them.

Here is some info from this side of the pond.

Some UK networks have deactivated 180 solutions for justifiable reasons from their networks.

In at least two instances I am aware of 180 has signed up again under one their other company names, which both the networks and affiliates community are quite aware of. Please note the networks made the decision by compiling their own evidence, however, unfortunately there are a couple who are still lagging behind, no prizes to guess who they are.

What's been particularly encouraging, has been merchants who unaware initially in the scheme of things have rapidly wisened up by choosing to adopt an ethical stance by taking it up with various trade associations to create a broad awareness.

Some merchants have been quite forthcoming with approximate revenues 180 was generating giving an insight into why a couple of networks are reluctant.

180 Solutions are also planning to visit the UK very shortly and explain their Jackanory to certain networks. Sitting in on that meeting is going to be interesting to say the least.

The awareness campaign is acheving great momentum, but it's not just about 180, there are a few other (Not All) applications which need addressing. But very soon most households and businesses will be educated enough to act on their own informed decisions and know the names out there.

[Gordon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However this will no doubt go on until 180 feel they have a water-tight case to any questions potential clients or affiliates may ask them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have hit the nail on the head here Qui Gon Jinn, this is exactly what Ive been saying the slimy b*stards have been doing. Also look at my #11 above, these people could not tell the truth at their own mothers funeral.

[QuietRiot]

Same here Connie -
Installed new motherboard, new hard drive more memory on my 14 year old daughter's computer, within 15 minutes of surfing the internet this crap was back on her computer. Daughter's reply sorry dad I just wanted to listen to some music.

Now my kids are scared to touch thier computers.

Kind a sucks though because my kids don't use their computers for shopping, but if they did, just think of all the money they could save.

180solutions at least your are putting all those out of work computer tech's back to work now thanks.

ahhh nothing like having to reformat a new hard drive.

180solutions Thanks Again!

[ecomcity]

Amazing Tommy is missing a chance to spin 180Solutions as the savior of those handfull of content/game sites their software supports to keep them afloat. All he has to do is publish the payouts 180Solutions gives to those poor-poor example sites coming from the 20 million Adware infested systems.

Let's hear the real truth on how they split up those pilfered millions to the clowns running these sites. We all know by now their application keeps free for public consumption the starving valuable web site owners, who can't make it on conventional Ad revenue and affiliate industry product sales.

Meanwhile the n-Case advertisers acquire the well deserved blackeye of monitizing spyware/adawrez perps causing billions of dollars of damages to shoppers systems.

[Andy]

Tommy,

I said: "You are using my copyrighted content keywords to target ads that appear when an end user is viewing my site."

Meaning, you are using keywords within the content of my site, all of which is copyrighted, as a mechanism to pop up ads. If I wanted visitors to my site to see pop ups, I'd serve them myself. You have no business competing with any advertising that may or may not appear on my pages.

Andy

[Trust]

Tommy, just answer this very simple example: User has your software on their computer and visits 2 pages.

First one is blank. No text, no banners, no meta tags, completely blank.

Second one has stuff on it, text, banners, whatever.

Which page can trigger your application to launch advertising, then tell me what caused it to launch.

[jimbo2002]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However this will no doubt go on until 180 feel they have a water-tight case to any questions potential clients or affiliates may ask them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure they are gaining valuable info and honing their defenses.

It looks like the networks who coddle 180 are also benefiting in the same way. Tommy effectively assumed a roll as the spokesman for Linkshare, announcing to us that these overwriting tactics are now fair game, while also shielding them from direct backlash from the non-bho affiliates.

None of them ends up with dirty hands. Tommy blames problems on their distribution partners, and the networks (and most AMs) avoided the conversation altogether.

[Chris - AMWSO]

Of course keywords includes domain names....which leads me on to...

How do you respond to the fact that when a person goes to say ICE.com you then pop up ICE.com in a nother windown with an affiliate tracking code in place.

Where is the value added
1. To the consumer?
2. To ICE.com?
3. To the site that sent the user to ICE.com in the first place?

Surely the existance of two windows for ICE.com is of no help to anyone? And what if the user came from a banner on MSN, your pop up will in effect overwrite the tracking that was in place and make ICE.com believe you created the sale. What if the user came from another affiliate site?

I apologize for ICE.com for using their site as an example, it's the best active one at present.

Thanks

Chris

[ecomcity]

Hey Guys & Gals. Do you really think I'd plant another "baited hook" in this thread to draw out Tommy who's in hiding?

[Dirk Gardner]

Hi Tommy,

I have taken excerpts of requirements 180 solutions is clearly violating from the PUBLISHER CODE OF CONDUCT as printed at Commission Junction and signed by Be Free, Commission Junction and Performics.

I have also taken the liberty of bolding and numbering every instance that you are not in compliance with so that you may attempt to justify each violation in sequence.

Publisher Code of Conduct

The following actions, practices and conduct, whether active or passive, direct or indirect, are prohibited:

Interference with referrals. (1.) No Web publisher ("Publisher") or software download technology provider ("Technology Provider") may interfere with or seek to influence improperly the referral of a potential customer or visitor ("End-User") to the Web site of an online advertiser ("Advertiser"). (2.) No Publisher or Technology Provider will automatically replace or alter any component of a Service Provider's technology that results in a reduction of any compensation earned by another Publisher. (3.) For example, a Publisher or Technology Provider may not use methods or technology to automatically replace a Service Provider's tracking identifier of another Publisher with its own Service Provider's tracking identifier or otherwise intercept or redirect an End-User from being referred by another Publisher.

Publisher may notify an End-User once that End-User has arrived at the Advertiser's Web site of an opportunity to utilize technology employed by that Publisher and (4.) obtain the End-User's consent via affirmative action upon each occurrence to proceed with the operation of such technology. Implementation of software application functionality (5.) requires that the notification be easily understood by the average End-User, that it (6.) occurs on each instance that the functionality is to be activated, and that it is not objectionable to the Advertiser.


Altering another Publisher's site. (7.)Publishers may not alter, change, substitute or modify the content of or appearance to an End-User of another Publisher's Web pages, use that Publisher's content to obtain an End-User referral, or obstruct access to another Publisher's Web pages (regardless of receiving permission from the End-User).


(8.)Software installation and de-installation. Publishers may not bundle downloadable shopping software applications with other applications, whereby the installation and de-installation is not obvious, easy or complete. Licensing and terms of all software downloads and applications of any type must be clearly presented to and accepted by the End-User, and de-installation must be obvious, easy and complete.


I look forward to seeing how you will use the english language to show us how 180 solutions is in compliance with the above bolded requirements and that they are not as any court would see them, numerous and blatant violations.

DPG

[markschok]

[Ethical Advertising]

This may have been covered already, I haven't taken the time to read everything in this thread yet. I will, but first I want to post my comments/questions based on what I have read so far.

I'll start off with a little story that happened to me personally.

I an ecommerce guy, I sell tangible, shipable goods through the internet. I am proud of what I have been able to accomplish, and like to show off a bit to anyone who will let me. Call it a personality flaw.

I was at a friends house around Christmas, and we were talking about my online store. He wanted to see it, so we went to his machine and pulled up the URL. The index page loads and everything is pretty and fancy and all that. Then he clicks on a product link within my store front, and a pop up flies into view with a competitors site in it. If that wasn't bad enough it was the page on the competitors site which promotes the exact same product in the text link my friend had clicked on. Since the product was the same my friend didn't even think twice about the fact that it was a DIFFERENT site. I was outraged of course, and this action is why I started digging around looking at scumware peddlers and seeing what I could do to help curb this type of action, if only by speaking up when and where I could.

That quest is what lead me here, to this forum.

It has been said that this type of "marketing" isn't taking visitors away from the intended site, but as you can see by my example that is precisely what it does.

With this all having been said, how can 180 assure me that my ecomm site is not being taken advantage of with this marketing technique?

Clearly it is, as in the example above my friend had absolutely no desire to see the competing sites products. If the competing site makes a sale due to this marketing technique, isn't it my site who actually initiated the sale in the first place? They clicked a text link on my site that caused the other site to appear, so my text link is as much a factor as the program installed on their machine that caused the pop up in the first place, so I should be paid for the referral, shouldn't I?

[northernstudio]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>With this all having been said, how can 180 assure me that my ecomm site is not being taken advantage of with this marketing technique? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Welcome to ABW, Ethical Advertising. 180 Solutions is all about the activity you describe. Your friends computer is infected with one of 180's spyware programs probably nCase or Zango) and 180 capitalizes on this infection.

L.L. Bean has filed an important lawsuit that targets large retail clients that hire spyware operators. If successful the revenue is cut off and, I think, will do much to rightfully starve these people to death.

Wayne

[Electropulse]

hey 180solutions how do you like the MS spyware solution? how much money will you loose a day?