[admad1]

I've just learned that Altrec are using 180 solutions, I'm pulling all there ads immediatly I advise anyone else to do the same.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21...roup-threatens



http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/images/180-jan06/

what is wrong with these people?

kili

[Gary-AvantLink]

admad1, I just wanted to let you know that Altrec is migrating right now to AvantLink. Once the migration is complete, they'll be clean. Here's the announcement.

Thank you, Gary M

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by admad1

what is wrong with these people?

They are greedy whores and that won't ever change.

Theft like this, when tangible, would mean an executive in charge who decided to allow it, would be fined and go to jail. Instead we get empty promises, f&*ked up computers, botnets, lost productivity, lost trust in internet safety and perps getting wealthy.

[Gary-AvantLink]

Donuts I agree this needs to be regulated and the sooner the better.. but I will say that Altrec is changing..

..and Altrec's not the only merchant in our network that has committed to cleaning house of parasites. We've been very blunt with educating them on what working with these parasites are doing to their program's reputation..

It's surprising to me in fact b/c several merchants simply didn't know any better. They set their application queue as auto-accept in other networks and next thing they knew they were infected.. this is why we need legal regulations, because it's obvious some neworks turn a blind eye otherwise. AvantLink is committed to being accoutable and keeping unethical partners out of the mix.. IMO that should be every's networks job so that merchant's won't find themselves infected and flamed in communities like ABW..

Greg Toledo (AM of Altrec) is out of town now until the end of this month, but when he returns I'll make sure he sees this thread.

[Zeus]

"Knowingly or not, these companies are fuelling the spread of unwanted programs that clog people's computers, threaten privacy and tarnish the internet experience for millions," said Ari Schwartz, director at the CDT.

I can't wait to see the top guys from networks like LinkShare be held responsible for their actions. It's coming.

[UncleScooter]

Altrec is a dirty, filthy program and the people running it don't give a rat's ass about how the sales are made. For AvantLink to think that this will change shows that they are terribly naive.
Altrec has done business like this for nearly a decade and will not change just because they are on some tiny network who claims to be parasite free.

Yet another example of a new network that claims to be parasite free and is everything except parasite free.

[Gary-AvantLink]

For AvantLink to think that this will change shows that they are terribly naive.

How exactly won't it change if their moving to us exclusively? We are taking a stance Uncle, and Altrec has decided to follow our lead. Don't forget we're the good guys. We're one of the networks who are being accountable for what Affiliates/merchants are doing..

Not sure how to win your support you seem to take every opportunity to bad mouth us..

I am going to let Greg continue on if he chooses from this point.. We have nothing to do with 180 and any merchant using our network won't, either. If they are still using parasites in other networks we will hound them about it.. and it I think it very well will soon be part of the terms of using AvantLink (no parasites from any network).

[UncleScooter]

Originally Posted by Gary-AvantLink

It's surprising to me in fact b/c several merchants simply didn't know any better. They set their application queue as auto-accept in other networks and next thing they knew they were infected..

Nice try but wrong in this case. Altrec knows exactly what they are doing and what they are doing shows that they are a horrible, corrupt and untrustworthy merchant. Quoted from this page

The presence of "180" in the Altrec ad URL reveals Altrec's specific knowledge that the traffic at issue is coming from 180solutions.

Gary, if you are working with them, I would check my pockets for my wallet after each meeting.

Edited to say:
It is not about badmouthing you, it is about telling the real story behind the spin put forth here. You tell affilaites to sign up and work with Altrec but you don't bother to tell them that when they do, their traffic will be eaten by 180, SAHS, Upromise and dozens of others. So Altrec is going to go from a presence on multiple major networks to only being on AvantLink. That is great if that really happens and when it does I will be the first to eat my words. But until then when you promote them on your network knowing that their program if dirty, you are doing a MAJOR disservice to your affiliates. Do you not understand this? For you to promote them without a serious disclaimer is like you giving a six pack and a pack of Marlboros to a five year old.

[UncleScooter]

Originally Posted by Gary-AvantLink

If they are still using parasites in other networks we will hound them about it

Hounding them about it still makes your network not parasite free. If your merchants have parasites on other networks, then you might as well have these parasites in your network because they will affect your affiliates too

Originally Posted by Gary-AvantLink

... and it I think it very well will soon be part of the terms of using AvantLink (no parasites from any network).

Now you're talking!!!

[Gary-AvantLink]

Ok Uncle.. The migration is taking place and rather then just switch at once they've decided to extend the process over several months. But they are committed to cleaning up for good..

Like I said Greg is gone until the end of the month.. when he returns we'll be sure he sees this thread. Anyways, I think he may have already booted several parasites that were active in their 'old' program already.. he's asked us for resources on how to identify the bad players, etc. I think he's sincere, and understands the damage that's been done and wants that to change..

Thanks! Gary M

[Donuts]

http://www.ebates.com/allStores.do#A

[Donuts]

igive (top moxie)
http://www.igive.com/html/body_merchantlisttour.cfm

[Donuts]

upromise (top moxie)
http://shop.upromise.com/browse.php?olmcat=all

[Donuts]

That took me a whole minute to check... I can imagine that there's a whole lot more if you go digging... which is part of your job.

Good lucky turning this crack whore into an upstanding citizen.

[vaisg]

Oh my ... 4inkjets is in all of them.

[Zeus]

Donuts - Good lucky turning this crack whore into an upstanding citizen.

It's going to be very hard for Avanlink to resist at the pressure of ebates, igive. upromise...
These parasites are not going to give up their share of Altec business. They will find a way to enter the system with different names... Yep, good luck!

[UncleScooter]

Gary, what is more important, being able to call your network 100% free of parasites and parasitic activity or having a name brand merchant to hang your hat on? As it is now, you have this merchant to hang your hat on, but they are mucking up the water for the rest of your network so badly that your entire operation is stained. Why not work with them to clean up THEN bring them on board? Bringing them on board when they are filthy dirty only taints your entire operation.

I do not think that AvantLink has bad intentions. I am rather impressed with AvantLink and the knowledge of their people....like you! There is another network on ABW right now claiming to be parasite free and promoting a known parasite via a CPA program. When it comes to affiliate marketing, this firm is so clueless they don't know whether to wind their butt or scratch their watch. Your company is different and I know that.
Based on years of history, Altrec has no morals at all, so therefore you are dirty by association. Do you think they gave 180 access to their server so they can set up a folder for ads to pop over Backcountry? Do you think for one second that this use of 180 was not done in-house by someone at Altrec?
I really wish there was at least one network outside of SAS that really understood the entire parasite issue and did everything they could to prove to affiliates that they have zero tolerance for parasites. Your words say this, but your actions show otherwise. If you were sincere about having a squeaky clean network, Altrec would not be a member of your network until they are 100% cleaned up.

[Trust]

So you're upset that they've decided to move to Avant exclusively and want to be parasite free? I know you're upset that they still have parasites while moving on over, I get that. But if this move ends with them being parasite free, good. It's not a perfect world, if this is hows it gets done, then the end result is what's important. They say they will be parasite free and exclusively on Avant. And if that in fact is what happens, great.

[Donuts]

Trust, how long does it take for a merchant to fire eBates and others?

Would you have me believe that they've decided to become clean but want to wait a while longer to boot thieves until Gary's ready? There's nothing stopping them from doing it right now - except their lack of backbone and ethics.

[Trust]

Don't know you should ask him greg at altrec.com or call him. Think he's gone till the end of the month. But if in fact they're going to get clean, like I said good.

"and it I think it very well will soon be part of the terms of using AvantLink (no parasites from any network)."

That's a good idea Gary. Hopefully you follow thru.

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

There's 2 situations being discussed here: 1) the merchant having parasitic relationships via their affiliate program and 2) the merchant having a relationship with an adware company outside of the affiliate channel.

While it's hard to be able to tell definitively without seeing the actual clickstream logs, it appears that Ben is saying it's #2 happening (with regards to the screenshot). That Alltrec has an advertising account themselves with 180Solutions. This unfortunately is not an uncommon situation. There are many merchants dealing directly with adware companies.

It is an important distinction however from a Network perspective as it goes to what degree a Network can control and monitor such activity. It's also important for the Network's bottom dollars. I'm seeing more and more merchant's targeting specifically their own domains for their ads to pop on their own domains. You should ask why a merchant would do this and what is their official (and unofficial) policy for paying aff commissions when the 'last click' was from one of 'their own marketing efforts'. Networks should also ask themselves that even if the affiliate program is clean of parasites, what impact does any relationships the Merchant have with adware directly have on the affiliate program?

Is the Network no longer parasite-free? I wouldn't say that. But I would say that while the Network is parasite free (given that they do indeed not allow parasites to join their Network), the Merchant however is NOT parasite free.

Affiliates should not make the assumption that a Merchant on a parasite-free Network is parasite-free themselves. It would be a potentially false assumption. The degree to which a Network is going to be able to monitor any and all possible other relationships by any particular Merchant (ie direct with parasites, indirect relationships through layers of multiple other Networks, ad buys through ad agencies such as doubleclick showing in adware, etc) is questionable. Even more questionable is to what a Network is going to realistically be able to control (have a say) is such behavior. Although I certainly do not support anyone promoting a Merchant as parasite free when they know there are indeed such relationships in place.

Ultimately affiliates decide which Merchants they want to partner with or not. They have to decide for their own businesses what criteria they are going to use to make those decisions.

[ecomcity]

I knew Altrek was dirty for years and refused to even look at their program. 180Solutions is moving to trojan horse virus backdoor installations and infestation distributors using rootkits. These advertisers know this and drool over having their Ads and house cookies pop over competitors sites with apps designed to completely take over shoppers systems.

What about these other known scumbag merchants safe harbored within their network partners in crime.

The CDT claims that companies including Altrec, Club Med Americas, eHarmony, Greetingcards.com, Letstalk.com, NetZero, ProFlower, PeoplePC, PerfectMatch, True.com, uBid and Waterfront Media create an incentive for botnet operators to break into computers.

Spyware researcher Ben Edelman has posted images of the offending advertisements on his website. The list is a sample of advertisers that were found using adware from 180solutions.

They were contacted by the CDT prior to the publication of the report but, with the exception of eHarmony, did not respond. The latter lacks a policy prohibiting the placement of its online ads through adware.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21...roup-threatens

Kelli your point is these companies use direct BHO Ad campaings to wash legit affiliate cookies with house account cookies. Then they remove all sales tagged that way from reports sent to their duped networks.

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

Kelli your point is these companies use direct BHO Ad campaings to wash legit affiliate cookies with house account cookies. Then they remove all sales tagged that way from reports sent to their duped networks.

I'm saying that is certainly a possibilty that the Network should be aware of. Remember that thread where an AM stated 'most' programs don't pay the aff commission when if the last click in can from one of their own advertising efforts? Even though they retracted the claim when the stuff hit the fan, I can think of several Merchants who spell that out in their Affiliate TOS in varying degrees. It's not uncommon. When you have a Merchant with that policy who is using adware to pop on their own sites, then yeah I think the question needs to be asked.

Not saying this is the case with Alltrec, just saying for a clean Network who has unclean merchants they need to have their eyes wide open.

[Gary-AvantLink]

Folks, We have an email into Greg @ Altrec.. he may or may not see it before the end of month when he returns.. but we wanted to be sure this was the first thread/issue waiting for him when he returned!

Kellie, thank you for your thorough information above. It was helpful for us..

[Chuck Hamrick]

This is a black and white issues and does not wait until the end of the month for Greg to get back. Call the president of Altrec tomorrow and tell him that playing this game with the highest level parasites puts his program in question with your network and any legitimate affiliate will dump them in a heart beat.

If you are working through Greg then you are not working with the decision maker. If they are sincere about ridding themselves of parasites it starts right now not a few months from now.

If Altrec doesn't make a commitment right now to get rid of parasites on any level you should drop them as if they burned your fingers. If you lose them I will join your network.