[flamingoworld]

Heather, your employee already admitted to sending the emails, you can't try to pawn it off on competitors trying to discredit you.
From the last few Affiliate Summits I have heard enough regarding your team's behavior and shady tactics that would tell me it is very easy to believe you don't follow ethical practices.

[I.M.O.G.]

Originally Posted by loxly

You ran to your own forum, that was set up before you left ABW, because at ABW you aren't in total control of the conversation. I imagine you are emailing iNet right now to ask for this thread to be removed. I already don't spend much time here, but if this thread is removed I will never come back.

Historical accuracy is important to the relevance of any community. I don't support removal of any threads for that reason.

I do support giving people a fair shake - its good form to give adversaries the same treatment we'd give our friends. Every story has multiple sides, and watching what both sides say, as well as how they handle the discussion, is often more telling than any single perspective.

Plus its more fun when we aren't just talking among ourselves in one-dimension about how evil "X" is... Its a lot more interesting to talk about something that is going on which isn't right while considering the what and why. I think that is how the fine line is drawn where on one side we could end up with loud idle bashing, or on the other side we hold a conversation which is effectively for the greater good of affiliates.

[Convergence]

Originally Posted by I.M.O.G.

I do support giving people a fair shake - its good form to give adversaries the same treatment we'd give our friends. Every story has multiple sides, and watching what both sides say, as well as how they handle the discussion, is often more telling than any single perspective.

Hah!

[Jorge - SHOPiMAR]

One of our merchants received an email a few weeks ago to join PMG. But since I've been an OPM for a while I am already used to seeing recruiting emails from other OPMs too, so not a big deal to me. I usually can tell if it was just a bulk email to many merchants or specific and as we can see looks like we all received one so in PMG case it looks like a bulk.

I suggest all managers/opms do not do bulk recruit but a manually sent email if it looks like the store is not managed, yes it is a pain slow process but works better.

[Jorge - SHOPiMAR]

Jorge said:
> I suggest all managers/opms do not do bulk recruit

And I meant that for new or unethical ones, cause most of us long time OPMs know what we're doing.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Originally Posted by I.M.O.G.

I do support giving people a fair shake

Which why this PUBLIC thread is so important as opposed to the the other thread in the IC which IMO was more heinous than any client pilfering (Kick her out of the IC and then open the bashing floodgates). Justified or not, it's not fair, kinder, gentler or for the benefit of the community nor the industry. So YES this give and take of open information serves the purpose much better than the one sided defamation thread that was previously allowed.

As a point of historical accuracy I can say I've seen and heard of many OPMs attempting to pilfer clients throughout the years and yes, it's happened but the "better ones" know that there is a "Decorum" in client recruiting, because there is more than enough business for everyone to make good money.

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Paulson Management Group

PMG does not have a business development team, most of our clients come to us via referral, Google search, or directly so I am really interested in seeing these email headers. PMG team members KNOW BETTER then to attempt to reach out to a merchant who is currently under a legally binding contract with another agency. PMG will swiftly deal with any internal emails that were sent out by employees with termination if it is found that this has occurred.

Here you go ....

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Wood [mailto:joelwood@paulsonmanagementgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:19 PM
To: Andy Rodriguez
Subject: RE: ***** Affiliate Program

Hello Andy,

I apologize for the mix up. We've been contacting non-managed programs. Somehow this program ended up in the mix. I sincerely apologize. We in no way wish to be a part of competing for business in such an unethical way. Please disregard my email and I will be sure to avoid any programs that you are currently managing.

Thank you and once again I sincerely apologize.

Warmest Regards,
Joel Wood

Vice President | PMG
Site: Affiliate Program Management, Paid Search Engine Management, Search Management
Direct: 303-242-2882
Office: 1-800-384-7760
Fax: 303-648-6601
Watch Us on PMG-AffiliateTV:
PMG-AffiliateTV
-------------------------------
Paulson Management Group, Inc
5470 Conestoga Ct.
Boulder, Colorado 80301

The information contained in this e-mail and/or any attachments hereto are for the exclusive use of the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged attachments, files, information and/or messages. If the recipient of this e-mail is not the addressee or intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering this e-mail to the addressee, such a recipient is strictly prohibited from reading, printing, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this e-mail message or any attachments or files, including WAV, MP3, or any other audio or database file hereto in any way either public or private commercial or otherwise. Use or duplication is strictly prohibited and will result in legal action. If the reader has received this e-mail in error, please send return e-mail immediately notifying us of your receipt of this e-mail and delete the e-mail from your inbox. Thank you.

________________________________________
From: Andy Rodriguez [andy@andyrodriguez.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 11:13 AM
To: Joel Wood
Subject: RE: ****** Affiliate Program

Joel,

You're kidding me right?

Is this where the industry is heading now, OPM's contacting each other's
accounts?

Are the gloves off?


Andy Rodriguez
Andy Rodriguez Consulting Inc.
Affiliate Program Management and
Online Marketing Consultants, Since 2001
P: 888-931-ANDY (2639)
E: andy@andyrodriguez.com
W: Affiliate Program Management and Affiliate Marketing Consulting – Andy Rodriguez
AIM: AffiliateDoctor
Skype: AffiliateDoctor


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Wood [mailto:joelwood@paulsonmanagementgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:48 PM
To: andy@andyrodriguez.com
Subject: ****** Affiliate Program

Hello Andy,

Not sure if you can help me, but thought you could possibly point me in the right direction. Would you happen to know who in your organization would be responsible for opportunities related to your affiliate program –
specifically recruiting and engaging affiliates or increasing EPC and
revenue? I’m with Paulson Management Group, and we specifically help
companies capitalize on these types of opportunities.

Warmest Regards,
Joel Wood

Vice President | PMG
Site: Affiliate Program Management, Paid Search Engine Management, Search Management
Direct: 303-242-2882
Office: 1-800-384-7760
Fax: 303-648-6601
Watch Us on PMG-AffiliateTV:
PMG-AffiliateTV
-------------------------------
Paulson Management Group, Inc
5470 Conestoga Ct.
Boulder, Colorado 80301

The information contained in this e-mail and/or any attachments hereto are for the exclusive use of the addressee and may contain confidential,
privileged attachments, files, information and/or messages. If the recipient
of this e-mail is not the addressee or intended recipient, or a person
responsible for delivering this e-mail to the addressee, such a recipient is
strictly prohibited from reading, printing, photocopying, distributing or
otherwise using this e-mail message or any attachments or files, including
WAV, MP3, or any other audio or database file hereto in any way either
public or private commercial or otherwise. Use or duplication is strictly
prohibited and will result in legal action. If the reader has received this
e-mail in error, please send return e-mail immediately notifying us of your
receipt of this e-mail and delete the e-mail from your inbox. Thank you.

and the email headers:

Return-Path: <joelwood@paulsonmanagementgroup.com>
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Heather,

I can buy "sorry this was an oversight" one time, but when multiple OPM's are complaining, same emails going out to recruit and the same apology emails go out to apologize .. something is up ...

I have known you since before you started your own agency, back when you were with Linda ... you have been around a very long time, there should be no need for this type of conduct from you or any of your employees, especially your Vice President?

Are you are going to fire your Vice President?

You mean to tell us he sent all these mails out behind your back without you knowing?

This has to stop and it has to stop today ...

[Paulson Management Group]

Hello,

I have spoken with the team and found that emails were sent out by someone who was not trained properly. This is our oversight and I have ensured that any business development emails going out have a cross checked email list. It is not our policy to go after competitor contracts, I have been in the business for 10 plus years and am very aware of the mutual respect which should be and will be shown to our peers.

The situation is being handled, my apologies to competitors who were sent emails.

Warmest Regards,
Heather Paulson

[davidh]

So a lower-on-the-totem-pole employee sends, reads, and replies to email to and from the VP's @PMG email address?

At least your bullshit is funny

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

The second post from PMG might have been a bit more convincing if the first post from them hadn't been more adversarial than concerned/apologetic.

And then there's this:











None of those tweets related to ABW in any way nor merchants promoted here. The links went to either the PMG blog or PMG forum. Not the first time I've seen Twitter hash tag spam (not just ABW) on PMG Twitter accounts. Maybe some nameless employee also has access to the PMG twitter accounts, the same one with access to the VP's email account.

Interestingly, the date of some of those tweets, the 8th, is the day the first OPM complained in the IC thread.

For me how an OPM promotes their own company and their merchants is a reflection of how they may manage their programs and what types of behaviors they will allow by their affiliates.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Originally Posted by Paulson Management Group

PMG does not have a business development team

Ummm ... PMG Welcomes New Team Members!



I think we are all glad this type of activity will now cease!

[TrishaLyn]

There's really never a reason to accuse others of libel when they're telling the truth. This whole thing looks like the Weiner stuff on Twitter... are they your underpants or not?

[akagorilla]

Back from vacation. I unplugged for 6 days. Sorry I missed all the hoopla.

My clients received two emails from Joel last week. No one responded to my first reply to Joelwood@paulsonmanagementgroup.com but Joel did respond to my second complaint.

Heather, if you are saying this wasn't Joel and it was a new employee using his email and signature, I don't buy it. I called Joel immediately after receiving the second email and sending him a reply and while I was leaving him a message, he was leaving me a message apologizing up a storm for getting caught again. So he was quite aware that the emails were being sent in his name.

Hello Greg,

Truly sorry for the confusion. We are in no way trying to grab clients away from you. We are attempting to contact non-managed programs. I sincerely apologize. We in no way wish to be a part of unethically contacting your client roster. Please disregard my email.

Thank you and once again sincerest apologies.

Warmest Regards,
Joel Wood

Vice President | PMG
Site: Affiliate Program Management, Paid Search Engine Management, Search Management
Direct: 303-242-2882
Office: 1-800-384-7760
Fax: 303-648-6601
Watch Us on PMG-AffiliateTV:
PMG-AffiliateTV
-------------------------------
Paulson Management Group, Inc
5470 Conestoga Ct.
Boulder, Colorado 80301

[MichaelColey]

Originally Posted by Paulson Management Group

PMG had to develop our own affiliate forum after it was found out that Loxly was going into our PRIVATE ABW forum and re-posting deleted posts to slander us and our clients in the open forum. We contacted ABW and they graciously allowed us to close down our ABW forum as it was jeopardized by Loxly. This is highly unethical behavior and a blatant disregard for professional decorum.

I must take exception to this fabrication. First, your affiliate forum was already developed before the post in question. Second, Debbie did exactly the right thing by reopening the thread and moving it to an appropriate forum. The only truth in your statement is that iNET graciously allowed you to close down your forum.

People can look at the post in question and make their own judgment:

Originally Posted by loxly

Exterior Accents Deactivated at CJ???

This is the thread that I moved from the PMG forum to the CJ forum.

Originally Posted by loxly

RE: The PMG Forem. Heather, please admit that your forum was already built and populated with all its subforums BEFORE I moved a post from your forum to the public. You had an affiliate go into your ABW *public* (your forum was not private) forum and post they were not satisfied with a client they thought was still managed by PMG. You closed the thread stating you were no longer involved with the client.

*I* moved the thread to the CJ subforum and reopened it because since you no longer managed the client the thread didn't need to be in your PMG ABW forum but the issues still needed to be addressed.

You then used that as an excuse to make a huge exodus from ABW to your forum *which was already set up and ready to go at least a week before* you huffed off ABW claiming that a moderator (me) was using their "power" to harm you.

In no way did moving that thread harm you.

This was my take on the situation as well. I'm not positive that it was a full week - my recollection was that it was 2 or 3 days. But whether it was a week or just 2 or 3 days, it was already in place before the post was made, closed, moved and reopened.

Debbie did an exemplary job as a moderator, and not once did I ever have a concern that she ever did anything that wasn't in the best interests of ABestWeb.com.

[superCool]

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

Debbie did an exemplary job as a moderator, and not once did I ever have a concern that she ever did anything that wasn't in the best interests of ABestWeb.com.

tru dat

[MichaelColey]

Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

Which why this PUBLIC thread is so important as opposed to the the other thread in the IC which IMO was more heinous than any client pilfering (Kick her out of the IC and then open the bashing floodgates). Justified or not, it's not fair, kinder, gentler or for the benefit of the community nor the industry. So YES this give and take of open information serves the purpose much better than the one sided defamation thread that was previously allowed.

PMG was removed from the Inner Circle because their actions were not in line with the role of "ABW Ambassador".

1) The misrepresentation and drama revolving around the closing of the PMG forum. As already shown above, they had already developed their forum and were just looking for any excuse to use for an exodus. The drama and new policies created as a result of it caused a large amount of grief for the moderators.

2) The Twitter hashtag spamming, which was being fed into the homepage of ABW. We approached PMG and asked them to stop hashtag spamming us. As you can see, they continue to this day.

I stand by the decision to remove PMG from the Inner Circle.

As for a "defamation thread", you know that's not what the intention was or what it is. It's a factual explanation to the ABW Ambassadors, who I felt should know why one of the IC members had been removed. Others have shared their own experiences with PMG in that thread (far more than I expected - I had hoped that those two incidents were isolated), but nothing there is defamatory.

In any case, I do agree that it's good to have this public thread so that the accusations (and response) can be made in public for all to see.

[MichaelColey]

But getting back to the topic of this thread...

I take a little bit of a contrarian opinion. While I think it's common courtesy for OPMs to avoid trying to recruit clients from other OPMs, I don't think it's necessarily unethical to do so. It's business. That said, there's PLENTY of merchants who aren't actively managed and there's a lot to be said about the better relationships that come from respecting your competitors.

Where I take much more exception, however, is with being dishonest about it. If you're going to do it, be upfront about it. Don't lie and say that you're not. Then lie and say that you accidentally did it. When the truth comes out and people see that you've "accidentally" done it to dozens of clients, everyone will know that you're a liar. Who wants to work with someone they can't trust? I sure don't.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

But getting back to the topic of this thread...

I take a little bit of a contrarian opinion. While I think it's common courtesy for OPMs to avoid trying to recruit clients from other OPMs, I don't think it's necessarily unethical to do so. It's business. That said, there's PLENTY of merchants who aren't actively managed and there's a lot to be said about the better relationships that come from respecting your competitors.

Where I take much more exception, however, is with being dishonest about it. If you're going to do it, be upfront about it. Don't lie and say that you're not. Then lie and say that you accidentally did it. When the truth comes out and people see that you've "accidentally" done it to dozens of clients, everyone will know that you're a liar. Who wants to work with someone they can't trust? I sure don't.

This. I had written almost exactly that in the IC thread a while back. Completely agree Michael.

If a group of OPM's want to have a handshake agreement like that, so be it. I don't think there should be a reasonable expectation that there's no competition for each others merchants though. That in and of itself has some troubling implications.

HOWEVER, lying about it and accusing people of libel is another matter altogether.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

PMG was removed from the Inner Circle because their actions were not in line with the role of "ABW Ambassador".

I didn't question her removal from the IC, I commented on the free for all thread. But now that we are on the subject, can you point me to where in the rules it defines an ABW "Ambassador" their duties/requirements? Also where it justifies the removal from the IC and/or brings the private bashing? (Of course in a new thread to keep this On Topic).

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

1) .....

Yeah, Ok?

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

2) The Twitter hashtag spamming ... As you can see ... they continue to this day.

Of course I still see it, it was ME who first alerted iNET about it!

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

I stand by the decision to remove PMG from the Inner Circle.

Good for you. Allow me to CLARIFY the issue was removing them and then bashing in private instead of exposing it and attempting to resolve it.

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

As for a "defamation thread", you know that's not what the intention was or what it is.

No I don't. If I didn't feel it was wrong I wouldn't have complained to iNET back when it started nor posted as such now.

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

... who I felt should know why one of the IC members had been removed.

Yes, I'm familiar with your "elephant in the room" threads.

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

In any case, I do agree that it's good to have this public thread so that the accusations (and response) can be made in public for all to see.

Which is what I am saying should have happened in the first place. I'm glad Chuck had the integrity to do it and stepped up to the plate.

[Convergence]

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

I take a little bit of a contrarian opinion. While I think it's common courtesy for OPMs to avoid trying to recruit clients from other OPMs, I don't think it's necessarily unethical to do so. It's business. That said, there's PLENTY of merchants who aren't actively managed and there's a lot to be said about the better relationships that come from respecting your competitors.

Where I take much more exception, however, is with being dishonest about it. If you're going to do it, be upfront about it. Don't lie and say that you're not. Then lie and say that you accidentally did it. When the truth comes out and people see that you've "accidentally" done it to dozens of clients, everyone will know that you're a liar. Who wants to work with someone they can't trust? I sure don't.

Anyone can justify any thing at any time - doesn't make it "right"...