[chetf]

Wayne:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I would never buy a DVD player out of the trunk of a car. I would avoid the situation completely.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, let me rephrase that using point (C) of your previous post. Lets say there were a whole line of cars openly selling DVD players from the trunk of their cars, they can do it openly because the police have stopped trying to prevent it since it is so widespread...

You and shawn from overstock should start the fist church of relative moralism. It wouldn't actually be the first church, but I am sure you would prefer to sell it that way.

Chet

[kickaha]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Way to break up the community, again Wayne ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry. My bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> geez ... who is worse ... Schwegman who doesn't want to breack CPC deals with parasites at the cost of CPA deals of joe blow affiliate or a B like you who just pisses on the whole system of reform? I don't really know nor want to waste my time, cuz ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sigh. Whatever Haiko. Sent you an e-mail you can call me or not.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Tickets ... tickets here ... get your front row seats ... tickets here! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take three. Will you serve refreshments?

-wayne

Wayne Porter
V.P. Product Development
AffTrack LLC.
http://www.afftrack.com
http://www.revtrends.com
Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

[mrmerchant]

No other string comes close - this is the best EVER.

[Leader]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Tickets ... tickets here ... get your front row seats ... tickets here!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Save me a seat for when Linkshare merchants like Overstock are up to get their kickings!

~Revenue is King

[kickaha]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Okay, let me rephrase that using point (C) of your previous post. Lets say there were a whole line of cars openly selling DVD players from the trunk of their cars, they can do it openly because the police have stopped trying to prevent it since it is so widespread...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am going to skip your DVD larceny analogies, let's stick to virtual ones. Why bother with analogies? There seems to be some great home movies floating around and hopefully people are taking them to the legal system.

That is where this material needs to go if it is to be finally resolved. Period.

Until that time affiliates need to think about who they partner with, and merchants should do the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You and shawn from overstock should start the fist church of relative moralism. It wouldn't actually be the first church, but I am sure you would prefer to sell it that way.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny Chet. Perhaps you should have considered an alternative career as an online comedian.

-wayne

Wayne Porter
V.P. Product Development
AffTrack LLC.
http://www.afftrack.com
http://www.revtrends.com
Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

OS ... is close to #1 if not #1

===============

mrMechant,

Geez ... you've become irrational ... using a pseudonym and bananas!

================

Wayne,

>>>refreshments?<<<

Yeah - - Kool Aid ... courtesy of the parasites and OS ... NJOY!

<font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli</font></p>

[SSanf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Perhaps I have done a poor job communicating my views too you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no, Wayne, you have communicated quite well.

The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

[ecomcity]

Well the ABW version of WWF smackdown Part III is in full swing. My views are relegated to background noise as I've been too consistant for too long. Well at least I don't have to worry about what I said yesterday ..last month or 2 years ago.

Mike & Charlie ...

If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

[cumbrowski]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrmerchant:
I am a member of UPromise. I downloaded this tool to make sure I always save for my child's college fund - always.... even when I'm shopping my favorite catalog companies via the Web.

Am I totally insane or does this forum/string completely deny the fact that this (above described) person exists??!! Perhaps some of us need to consider the fact that the world exists beyond our own "business interestes."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mrmerchant. I would not bet my money on a company with immoral business practice when it is about an important thing such as my kids education... with everything than depends on that... THEIR FUTURE.

The offers of companies like Upromise sound great for unsuspectingly consumers.
To good to be true.

The reality is, that the practices are legal today, but have a very good chance to be illegal in a couple years (before your kids go to college). They are already immoral, which is a bad start.

Who knows if the company is still around when it's time for the payouts.

Possible Lawsuits today and inevitable Lawsuits when the legislative forces react may force the company out of business completely.

All the money lost, for nothing.

The Founder paid himself out prior the collapse and can be reached on a tropical island outside US borders. Available for Interviews by magazines for $xxx.xxx to tell the story about the rip off.

I can't find anything about federal backup in case of bankruptcy on the UPromise Website.
Does it exist?

Legit investment companies who provide saving plans like 401K, IRA's and 529's (College Funding Plan) are backed up by the Government to protect the people's savings.

Carsten

If you can't move things, try harder!

[cumbrowski]

Sorry.. I didn't read all 5 pages yet, but there was a good one.

Keyword: "consumers want..."

Consumers want to get the best deal possible!
YES. I want them too!!!! Most Consumers don't get it of course.

A few months ago I switched my local phone company. I got a better deal than with my old one... great.
I talked with a fried about it a few weeks later. He got the same deal plus 5000 Airline Miles for free, which I did not got for the same transfer.

Well, that happens all the time.
I would like to have a computer controlled reminder who tells me for every product and service I buy about all available deals, prices and rates.

That invention would lead to monopolies for each branch of merchandise and service and would render the device useless, not to mention the impact on the economy of the whole country.

That kind of advertising is even prohibited in other parts of the world.
Some countries prohibit the comparision of products and services with the similar product or service of your competitor. The Statement: "My product A cost x% less than competitors product B" is illegal, because it's considered dirty.

Well.. God bless Capitalism

Carsten

If you can't move things, try harder!

[cumbrowski]

Well.. Everybody is always against Wayne.
Listen guys, he brings always the Merchant prospective into play. That's an important one, even if you don't like it.
Actually we affiliates depend on Merchants (just a reminder), so we have to deal with it, if we like it or not.

I agree with Wayne in general.

1. It's up to the merchant, if he wants and can work with parasites.

2. It's up to the Affiliate to educate Merchants about how Parasites work.

No.2 is very important, because a lot of merchants do not realize what parasites do to their business. Diverted commissions do NOT have impact on the performance of the merchants affiliated program. Diverted Traffic from non-Affiliates does (PPC, SE, Direct Traffic, Emails, Bookmarks etc.). It increases the Customer acquisition cost, decrease the online profit margins and the effectiveness of other online marketing campains.

Some Merchants are okay with the Parasite Traffic, others not.
A merchant with 10% margins and 10% commission will probably not work with parasites, because there is no money to make for him.
The same merchant would probably also not work with coupon only sites, because each referrer would be a loss for the merchant.

The loser in this game will always be the consumer anyway. He seems to be the winner today, but he will be the one who suffers, when the whole parasites bubble bursts.

That will have impact on regular Affiliates and Merchants as well, because another piece of trust will go down the drain.

Earned incentives through parasite Sites will be spent on lawsuits and damage repairs and not paid out to the consumer.
The customer will be pissed, because he does not care about the fights we fight today.
He does not know and does not understand. He just knows, that he is loosing money...again.
It's even impossible for the average consumer to know, that there is something unethnical going on. Most people don't even know what Affiliate Marketing is and how it works.

Carsten

If you can't move things, try harder!

[This message was edited by Carsten C on June 25, 2003 at 03:52 AM.]

[chetf]

I would just say one thing to your post Carsten C. Wayne does not represent the merchant. He represents himself. That is a difference of a million magnitude. Wayne promotes and does what is best for Wayne and only Wayne.

And I think at this point, only wayne sees the COC as a positive step forward. So don't be fooled. Go check posts pre-nov. I post only because of people like you who still believe Wayne is doing something to help. He is. But only to help himself.

Chet

[cumbrowski]

Thanks Chet, but I know and read 90% of Wayne's posts during the last 9 months.

Let's but it this way. He is not a merchant and represents himself, since he is no merchant, but he represents a lot of the thoughts merchants have. Thoughts merchants would not post here in public.

He represents the Capitalist with all the good and bad things the word means and implies.

It's an important view, which should not be ignored.

Carsten

If you can't move things, try harder!

[Andy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Chet wrote: I would just say one thing to your post Carsten C. Wayne does not represent the merchant. He represents himself. That is a difference of a million magnitude. Wayne promotes and does what is best for Wayne and only Wayne. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And the reason Wayne is here is because he is so passionate about Affiliate Marketing...




Andy

_______________
"If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

[kickaha]

Carsten,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Thoughts merchants would not post here in public. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am so glad you get it. Many Thanks.


Andy,

That is correct, I have been for many years now. So why are you here? That was a rhetorical question of course.


-wayne

Wayne Porter
V.P. Product Development
AffTrack LLC.
http://www.afftrack.com
http://www.revtrends.com
Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

[chetf]

Forgot to add to that thought, it was really hot and buggy last night.

We all look out for ourselves, but unlike other groups of people, Wayne has very little overlap for the positions he holds. As affiliates, we have a collective goal and issues we are concerned with. Merchants the same. Networks the same. Wayne and a few other people fall in-between all of us in their own individual unique groups.

Chet

[mrmerchant]

Proof positive that THIS forum is where the intellectual action is at:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Forgot to add to that thought (slamming Wayne), it was really hot and buggy last night. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The secret of success is constancy of denial. ~ MrMerchant

[Andy]

@ Wayne:

@ mrmerchant:

Andy

_______________
"If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

[chetf]

Are you that dense that I had to add a wink for you?

[cumbrowski]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chez Noir:
As affiliates, we have a collective goal and issues we are concerned with.
Chet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Affiliates of the same merchants are competitors, Merchants within the same branch are competitors, Affiliate Networks are competitors. Thats how it is.

1.
We do not hate parasites, because they make the merchant pay commission for direct traffic or traffic generated through other marketing channels like PPC Ads and Email Marketing.

2.
We hate them, because they are our competitors and use an immoral (and some a probably future illegal) business practice which hurts each of us affiliates, by overwriting our links and stealing our commissions.

#1 makes a bunch of merchants listening to us and taking our side. #2 alone does usually not much. Most merchants could care less about that part of the issue.

Moral is a player in this game, but moral gets dropped when it comes down to the actual $ figures.. on both sides.. the merchants AND the affiliates.

I do not drop a merchant who is good performing for me and is affiliated with one or more parasites. Neither would you.

Most merchants will also not drop a parasite, if the profit margins and sales figures are alright.

To take a moral stand in this issue is a honorable thing... and a luxury.

Things have to be done. Things will be done.
Some behaviours will become outlawed and criminal, others will not.

It sounds cold ... and well it is.

It's Business. Business has no relationship with love, peace, freedom, moral and other high valued attributes like that.

Adding any of this attributes to a business plan has in 99.9% of the cases nothing to to with generosity, but strategy... full turn to business again...

Precious new world.

Carsten

If you can't move things, try harder!

[This message was edited by Carsten C on June 27, 2003 at 05:07 AM.]