[Kellie aka Ms. B]

First of all I suppose Aluria's recent certification of WhenU as "Spyware Safe" makes a bit more sense now. I do have to wonder if what Aluria is making with WhenU for powering WhenU's scanner is equivalent to what they were making with AOL (Aluria is no longer powering AOL's scanner from what I can tell through my AOL account).

WhenU does seem to be making a big push to distinguish themselves from other applications. Their current homepage:



So I go to their "Take Control of Your PC" page and from there to Scan the PC in order to remove all malicous and unsolicited software. I get the usual yada yada for a sypware removal application page. I download and install their spyware removal application. What do I get when I download their spyware removal app???

I get WhenU's Desktop Search Toolbar with a link in it for a spyware scan. So I get an adware application when I download a spyware removal application (there's that pesky differentiation between spyware and adware that isn't being made in the minds of many consumers at this time). Now maybe I'm just going blind here, but on their scanner page (http://www.whenu.com/scan_pc.html) I'm not seeing one single thing about getting a desktop toolbar. And a more closer look at the EULA that came with the 'scanner' install, WhenU mentions Save! several times. Although at this time I haven't seen the Save! application from my install. Must be in that EULA for a reason, I'm just not sure why yet. It could be Save! comes with the Desktop Search Toolbar in certain delivery/install channels (I downloaded from the WhenU site) or it gets installed later.

So now I have WhenU's toolbar on my computer. I'm real interested to see exactly WHAT Aluria will be detecting for removal with this scanner. Over the next week or so I'm going to be loading up the computer to check that one out. WhenU certainly isn't of course. Let's see what happens with their major competitors. I'm also going to be checking the detection between the WhenU version and Aluria's full fledged version to see how these match up side-by-side.

On other interesting point I've seen thus far. From the toolbar menu I clicked on the "Special Savings" link expecting to be taken to WhenU's page to either install Save! or their paid service. Nope....where I was taken to was the join page on Ebates. Hmmm, hmmmm, hmmm....wonder if the Aluria scanner will detect the MMM or not??? That's on the agenda for today.

It's a jungle out there.

[Vinny O'Hare]

Sounds like you have your hands full with this bs thats for sure.

[Andy Rodriguez]

Wow... :

[chetf]

Aluria is no longer powering AOL's scanner from what I can tell through my AOL account

Can anyone confirm this? It would be nice to know that someone at AOL pulled their head out of their butts long enough to realize what Aluria really is.

Chet

[curt]

WhenU and Aluria, very sickening. Wow! I take a year off from all this thiefware crap and now finally start to get myself updated on the latest and find this garbage. Never thought I'd see this day. Guess it's OK that Whenu messes over us affiliates (shown according to their actions of partnering with WhenU and certifying them spyware free--What about being thiefware free--that they are not). 2 years ago I felt we could work with them to make their system better. It's more corrupt than ever.

Is there a piece of spyware and thiefware removing software available that does not remove cookies? Aluria has went back on their promise of that too... flagging CJ cookies as elevated risk as well as other network cookies.

[ecomcity]

Originally Posted by curt

WhenU and Aluria, very sickening. Wow! I take a year off from all this thiefware crap and now finally start to get myself updated on the latest and find this garbage. Never thought I'd see this day. Guess it's OK that Whenu messes over us affiliates (shown according to their actions of partnering with WhenU and certifying them spyware free--What about being thiefware free--that they are not). 2 years ago I felt we could work with them to make their system better. It's more corrupt than ever.

Is there a piece of spyware and thiefware removing software available that does not remove cookies? Aluria has went back on their promise of that too... flagging CJ cookies as elevated risk as well as other network cookies.

SunBelt's CounterSpy to the rescue as it leaves the network cookies alone abd ***** slaps all the known Adhores. Make 50% as an affiliate as it certainly flushes WhenU ...

[curt]

Is SunBelt's CounterSpy roughly equivalent in quality to the other spyware removers? (hoping it is). Do they look promising as a strong ally to the affiliate marketing community regarding cookies?

I looked at Aluria's certification guidelines and nowhere do they require that the thiefware respect not putting up ads over our sites nor do they require that the thiefware respect our affiliate referral cookies. Aluria is more corrupt than they were before. What happened to that company? Dang! They seem like they are simply following the $$$. That's really sad—sure had me fooled.

[curt]

Can't promote Sunbelt's Counterspy either... removes cookies too.

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

You're shocked Curt?? The handwriting that was on the wall was certainly being read here way back. Maybe if you'd been paying a bit more attention to what was actually being said here about Aluria instead of being so 'offended' with ABW members for calling it like it was and then running around over at herbie's (where *is* he now anyway?) and other places poo poo'ing ABW for saying it like it was with Aluria, you wouldn't be so shocked now. I wasn't shocked at all when I saw the partnership with WhenU and Aluria.

Just because Aluria (Jamie G, Missy Ward) were rubbing elbows on the cruise, sponsoring stuff, yucking it up over at herbie's and shawn's shouldn't have been the yardstick used to measure their intentions. What they were actually doing with their software and how they were running their business in general were pretty good indications were things were heading.

BTW, it's parasiteware around here, not thiefware. That thiefware site pretty much died out a long time ago.

[ecomcity]

Originally Posted by curt

Can't promote Sunbelt's Counterspy either... removes cookies too.

BS ... leaves network tracking cookies alone and whacks the crap out of the webbug/spyware cookies.

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by curt

Can't promote Sunbelt's Counterspy either... removes cookies too.

Newsflash: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=63626

We have a friend in SunBelt CounterSpy and they are no longer whacking our cookies and are working with several ABW members to...

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by curt

Is SunBelt's CounterSpy roughly equivalent in quality to the other spyware removers? (hoping it is).

I say it is superior - and therefore a good reason to give them a close look as both an affiliate (if you promote a product) and as a consumer (when you want to clean Mom's PC).

But my opinion is just that - you should use the product and check it out. Years ago, Giant Software built an anti-spyware app in a partnership with SunBelt - then Microsoft bought Giant (cuz the product was SO GOOD!). As microsoft took their version and SunBelt theirs, the products have diverged somewhat. My opinion is that MS downgrades CRAP we (as affs and consumers) want deleted, while SunBelt's version, called CounterSpy continues to take a hardline stance and whack all the CRAP.

Here's a few recent reviews where I believe SunBelt CounterSpy demonstrated its superiority:

PC World (rated as their Best Buy):
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...72,pg,2,00.asp

IT Pro Magazine:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...88&newsLang=en

Laptop Magazine:
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Press.cfm?id=115

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do they look promising as a strong ally to the affiliate marketing community regarding cookies?

I say they are - but I suggest you talk to them directly - it's a trap if we as a group listen to what I say alone. Contact their affiliate manager here and ask him about what is evolving regarding cookie treatment by CounterSpy:
Mr. Sandy Vandebult
Sandyv "at" sunbelt-software.com

His title is "Internet Marketing Specialist" and he runs their affiliate program among other things.

If you manage aff programs, come meet Sandy at Andy's Affiliate Management seminar:
http://www.andyrodriguez.com/Affilia...-Miami-05.html
(you can confirm with Sandy that he is attending)

[ecomcity]

Once Haiko and Ms.B verify CounterSpy's pro-affiliate stance I suggested a free forum here for them to recruit Adwhore gunslinging affiliates. Every 50% commission brings another shopper's or a complete companies network of systems out of the Adwhores reach. Push the enterprise Sunbelt programs too.... pays great.

[curt]

Kellie aka Ms. B said:

You're shocked Curt?? The handwriting that was on the wall was certainly being read here way back. Maybe if you'd been paying a bit more attention to what was actually being said here about Aluria instead of being so 'offended' with ABW members for calling it like it was and then running around over at herbie's (where *is* he now anyway?) and other places poo poo'ing ABW for saying it like it was with Aluria, you wouldn't be so shocked now. I wasn't shocked at all when I saw the partnership with WhenU and Aluria.

Don't think Shocked is quite the word, more like very very dissappointed and sickened. As far as being offended about the profanity used in relation to the 2 year old conversation, I stand by my morals on that one. This current Aluria isn't the same Aluria that I was talking to 2 years ago. They now show very different colors. Perhaps they were that way already back then—I don't know (I got detached from the thiefware thing for the last year+). I gave them the benefit of the doubt back then as I do with most people. I'm not going to dwell on the past too much...

Kellie aka Ms. B said:

...parasiteware around here, not thiefware...

Semantics aside, both terms encompass the same meaning of that action.

Donuts said:

We have a friend in SunBelt CounterSpy and they are no longer whacking our cookies and are working with several ABW members to...

That's great news! I'm wondering how they treat independent merchant affiliate tracking cookies of companies using their own home grown affiliate tracking systems. I imagine they are deleting those (yes/no?). Just wish these thiefware/spyware removers would simply leave all cookies alone because they don't know what they are removing and whom they are harming in the process by removing them. Saving network cookies is a start which is promising.

[Donuts]

They are open to indie cookies, but we need to tell them. Without our input, this is their basic situation. Consumers (in my opinion mistakenly) think cookies are bad and they want the anti-spyware box to say it kills cookies on it. So the majority of them need to do something with cookies even though they know they are benign. Thanks to misinformed and ignorant reporters, particularly Mossberg at the Wall Street Journal, the masses will continue to view cookies as evil (even though they often leave them on to get the important functionality that cookies can provide to a user). So SunBelt is taking a risk on us - a market risk - but they feel many consumers are now well informed enough to learn and see that cookies don't all need to be whacked.

I hate parasitic activity with a passion - my posts, movies and progress made with my own merchants stands as proof of that - but I can put myself in SunBelt's shoes and see the situation they are in as well.

I urge you to contact them, or post details here (they are lurking often) regarding any affiliate tracking cookies that concern you.

[ecomcity]

Install CounterSpy and see for yourselves you cheapskates. The cookies detected are all explained in detail by selecting them. Some really are spyware tracking cookies and some inform BHO's their infestation partners get bonuses for re-installs and longevity..

[curt]

Some really are spyware tracking cookies

These kinds of comments confuse people. This is how rumors of cookies being spyware get started. Cookies in themselves are NOT spyware. The sites that set browser cookies could set a cookie that might involve tracking of some spyware item, but the cookie itself is not spyware. Spyware is an application not a simple text file record. Just so that newbies and others don't get confused.

HTH

BTW, Thanks Donuts for your insights. They were helpful

[ecomcity]

Originally Posted by curt

These kinds of comments confuse people. This is how rumors of cookies being spyware get started. Cookies in themselves are NOT spyware. The sites that set browser cookies could set a cookie that might involve tracking of some spyware item, but the cookie itself is not spyware. Spyware is an application not a simple text file record. Just so that newbies and others don't get confused.

HTH

BTW, Thanks Donuts for your insights. They were helpful

Well I just ran a CounyterSpy scan on 2 systems. Sure whacked all the perps after afresh install & update of AGV anti-virus. Seems the new generation of Spyware/Adware uses trojan backdoor viruses to throttle the weak and bogus Anti -theftware programs and choke Norton and other virus programs.

Only cookie Counter spy maked for "remove" were cookie all associated with know BHO's and spyware. That gets my seal of approval as the only grey area cookie was from DealTime a Netorious SuperAffiliate obviously up to no good.

[curt]

Yes it would be nice if these applications would only remove cookies tied to spyware and thiefware sites instead of working the other way around and blanketly delete everything. We still need to educate people about the true nature of cookies or our commissions will continue to be at stake.

Nearly all spyware removers do a disservice to the whole affiliate marketing segment of the web. I often wondered how much money the sites running affiliate programs lose because of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Ad-Aware spyware remover has been a major problem for affiliates since the beginning because they incorrectly labeled all cookies as spyware (or at least giving that impression). The other companies copied that model to the detriment of all us affiliates.

Just flag the cookies tied to actual spyware tracking and leave the rest alone. Of course even cookies tied to spyware do NOT do anything to a person—that's the message to get across to people. Remove the true spyware and leave the cookies alone. We need to end the fear of cookies.

[ecomcity]

Curt are you dense? There is only ONE COMPANY leaving the majority of network cookies alone (those not ties to Adware/Spyware) ...that's Counterspy! What don't you get about the fact CounterSpy and MS Anti-Spyware leave the cookies as ignor & low risk. Physical and mental steps have to be made ny enduser to even remove the cookies tied to Adware/Spyware.

If you don't see SunBelt offering 50% commission on a Adware/Spyware program that works on individual and corporate network systems to whack the commission thieves ... then your in bed with the inferior competition or the BHO perps. Just leave ABW and never come back as you'll never have anything to offer this group but grief.

[Donuts]

Curt, we do need to end the fear of cookies. Unfortunately, us educating the masses is a difficult proposition. However, a window of opportunity has recently opened.

SunBelt CounterSpy is winning all the awards for whacking the bad stuff better than the others. And this same company has opened a channel of communications to several key people, all from ABestWeb. Haiko, Kellie, Ben Edelman, Ecomcity / Mike and myself included. They are asking us for input - they want to know which cookies concern us. If you contact them, name the affiliate cookie you want whitelisted, the request goes to their research department for quick verification, and is whitelisted.

They have an affiliate program as well.

Now, as their apparent unofficial and unpaid spokesperson here, let me explain my main motivation for working with them. They clean best. They will listen to us and act. They want us to sell for them. What I want is an anti-spyware product, a very good one, to respect how we make money. If CounterSpy starts selling a lot, through affiliates, because they are treating our cookies as we want them to, then we don't have to educate the masses - the other anti-spyware companies, to get sales as well, will follow SunBelt's lead. SunBelt has seen the others selling tons through their respective affiliate programs - so they took a long term employee (Mr. Sandy Vandebult) with hutzpah, deep marketing experience and cross-departmental experience within SunBelt, and put him in charge of their relatively new affiliate program. He has marching orders from the top to get their product selling. This HELPS us. This whole thing, getting SunBelt's top-notch product to change to our favor, is a big win for them in sales from affiliates, but a HUGE win for us in influencing ALL of the anti-spyware companies. I hope that as the CounterSpy whitelist unfolds, that it impresses Haiko sufficiently for him to give some serious thought to endorsing SunBelt's CounterSpy by choosing to promote it at his www.parasiteware.com site.

So, my efforts, where I am staunchly supporting SunBelt are two fold - (1) the product works best so I want to promote it and (2) we have a chance to skip educating the masses and get to our goal (leaving our cookies alone) by lining up behind the premier product and selling it, and in so doing, wake up the other anti-spyware companies to do the same thing with cookies!

Now is the time to contact them. The opportunity is here right now. Get your cookies whitelisted. Test the product. Decide whether you want to support it. Sell the hell out of it if you agree that it leads to our shared goals - in this case, making a fat commission for selling it and larger still, shaping the anti-spyware landscape concerning affiliate cookies!

[curt]

Donuts, You are Right!

We do need to support Sunbelt in this regard if they are really listening to us (and it would seem they are listening per your testimony on this). If they are willing to work with affiliates, then by all means get the word out to all affiliates to switch their affiliate links to Sunbelt and don't forget to mention why (it's in their interest to help affiliates ultimately get better commissions from more reliable cookies). No mystery there.

However, I still do believe that getting the message out that cookies are NOT spyware is also important. I know the few of us here can't do that insurmountable task ourselves—it would be foolish to think that, but at least put up a web page or 2 on our sites about cookies to explain to people that cookies are NOT spyware, anything that will help the affiliate cause regarding cookies (forum posts elsewhere, educating family & friends). Get those pages in the SERPs so we can begin to turn the tide in favor of the cookies. After all we have so much bad info out there about cookies, we need to get some good info in favor of cookies out there too. Between promoting SunBelt and educational pages, etc, each one of us can impact it some.

I certainly understand and agree with you Donuts.

ecomcity said:

Curt are you dense? ... then your in bed with the inferior competition or the BHO perps. Just leave ABW and never come back as you'll never have anything to offer this group but grief.

First off eco person, I understand what's going on here, but you are not at all pleasant to talk with. YOU insight people to get angry at your flaming posts. YOU ARE A VERY RUDE INDIVIDUAL! If you can't address me with some civility, then don't talk to me (or post to me).

[curt]

Have we started a page here at ABW where affiliates can list affiliate site tracking links so that sunbelt can protect those cookies? If so where is it? If not we should get a thread started so that sunbelt can gather a list of affiliate sites for the cookies or whatever other info they need to help them in this endeavor.

Just thought it might help some who want to establish a common place to post this info. Email is always available as Donuts has said.

[ecomcity]

Originally Posted by curt

Have we started a page here at ABW where affiliates can list affiliate site tracking links so that sunbelt can protect those cookies? If so where is it? If not we should get a thread started so that sunbelt can gather a list of affiliate sites for the cookies or whatever other info they need to help them in this endeavor.

Just thought it might help some who want to establish a common place to post this info. Email is always available as Donuts has said.

Affiliates setting tracking cookies are merchant posers (Dupers). If any merchant/network tracking cookie gets flagged by CounterSpy then that OUTED enity is playing a spyware or BHO reporting game with consumers, leaving a breadcrumb trail of cookies. Certainly those worried about being flagged can visit my frontpage and click on the CounterSpy link and buy & run the program. If it doesn't run on the Win98 -Win XP system you have a serious virus infection problem... period. If your cookie (ie. DealTime - eBates) shows up then contact Sunbelt and go to trial over why you shouldn't be whitelisted.

Curt at ABW you earn respect and that often involves running right up against me and my rants. At my age and experience level I can spot those with a neferious ajenda quicker then most. There is no need to educate anyone about cookies who have bought CounterSpy. They do a great job during the detect process by their info screens and forum. Now if we could only get Haiko to pull that piece of crap ...Spyware X-terminator ... from www.parasiteware.com and replace it with CounterSpy, that site would do some good.

[curt]

ecomcity said:

... At my age and experience level I can spot those with a neferious ajenda quicker then most.

I suppose then most people with my style of writing have an evil agenda then? Dang!

The agenda is to preserve affiliate tracking cookies so that we get credit for sales of products and services.

ecomcity said:

There is no need to educate anyone about cookies who have bought CounterSpy...

On the contrare, people think cookies are evil—they are not.

ecomcity said:

Affiliates setting tracking cookies are merchant posers (Dupers). If any merchant/network tracking cookie gets flagged by CounterSpy then that OUTED enity is playing a spyware or BHO reporting game with consumers, leaving a breadcrumb trail of cookies.

You mean to tell me that when a person clicks an affiliate link (not spyware affiliate links) and a cookie is set so that the person gets credit, there's something wrong with that? That's one of the basic building blocks of an affiliate program. Most affiliate programs are NOT tied to spyware or spyware BHOs. Besides that any affiliate cookies set by browsers do NOT harm.